Cold War Conversations

The Cold War was a huge battle for hearts and minds — a true “people’s war.” But where did the “people’s game” fit into it? In their new book, Cold War Football: A History in Ten Matches, Tony Shaw and Alan McDougall explore the surprising and fascinating links between football and the global struggle between capitalism and communism. From East Germany’s famous victory over West Germany at the 1974 World Cup to North Korea’s remarkable run in 1966, they show how football became much more than a game. Tony and Alan reveal how football was used to support democracies, strengthen dictatorships, and win influence in the developing world. These matches gave people a rare glimpse of life on the “other side” of the Iron Curtain — sometimes bringing enemies closer together, and sometimes helping to spark unrest and revolution. Packed with legendary players, unforgettable goals, and controversies both on and off the pitch, this is a wonderfully rich history of how the Cold War shaped football — and how footba

In June 1949, the US and British governments secretly agreed to mount a joint covert action operation to overthrow the communist government in Albania. The top-secret plan would use exiled dissidents to conduct subversive intelligence, paramilitary and propaganda operations to foment an uprising against Albania's authoritarian ruler Enver Hoxha. I speak with Stephen Long, the author of A Rich Harvest of Bitter Fruit: CIA and MI6 Covert Action in Communist Albania at the Dawn of the Cold War. He describes how the Albanian operation is a vital but misunderstood part of Cold War history and the West’s first secret attempt to subvert a communist state behind the Iron Curtain. While the West ultimately backed away from trying to bring down Hoxha's regime, Albania was the test case of anti-communist covert action where the West served its apprenticeship before rolling out this capability on a global scale. It’s a tale of subterfuge, secrecy, and skulduggery that is a fascinating examination of one of the

I had the honour of speaking with Tony Dobbie, a former RAF V- Force bomber pilot who joined the RAF in 1960. Tony shares amazing anecdotes from his training, including his experiences flying jets like the Meteor and the Vampire, and the transition to the mighty Victor bomber. He candidly discusses the realities of nuclear missions during the Cold War, revealing the tension and responsibility that came with such roles. One of the most gripping parts of our conversation revolves around the Cuban Missile Crisis. Tony was on QRA on Black Saturday when US forces went to DEFCON Two, one step shy of war and US and British forces prepared for imminent conflict with the Soviet Union . Tony also recounts a posting to the Bomber Command Operations Centre near High Wycombe in 1965 where a false alarm almost sent the V-Bomber force off to bomb the Soviet Union. Special thanks to Matthew Dobbie (Tony’s son) for organising the interview and the Hack Green Secret Nuclear Bunker, who allowed the episode to be

Kris is a former conscript in the West German Bundeswehr during the Cold War. He shares his experiences from the moment he received his conscription notice at 17, ultimately joining the Luftwaffe, where he served with the Pershing nuclear missile system. Basic training was a rite of passage filled with challenges. Kris recounts the camaraderie formed with fellow recruits and the harsh realities of military life. Still, it was during this time that he learned valuable lessons about discipline, teamwork, and resilience. As the conversation unfolds, we explore the operational aspects of the Bundeswehr, including the use by West German troops of nuclear weapons. Reflecting on his service, he offers a candid assessment of his time in the military. While there were moments of frustration and a sense of wasted time, he ultimately recognises the profound impact that this experience had on his life. The skills he learned and the friendships he forged would shape his future in ways he never anticipated. Li

I delve into the fascinating world of Cold War propaganda with historian Rory Cormac, author of a new book “Fakers - 'A Top Secret Tale of Phantoms and Forgeries on the Disinformation Front Line'. The episode uncovers the clandestine operations carried out by the Information Research Department (IRD), a little-known unit of the British Foreign Office that specialised in covert propaganda during the Cold War. Rory shares insights into the recent declassification of 8,000 files, which revealed the astonishing operational details of the IRD. From bizarre forgeries to the creation of phantom organisations, the episode highlights the absurdity and complexity of Cold War espionage. As Rory explains, the IRD was not just about planting stories in the press; they were deeply involved in black operations, often working closely with MI6 to achieve their goals. One of the most striking examples discussed is the IRD's attempts to undermine Egyptian leader Nasser during the Yemen Civil War. Rory illustrates how the

Flynn describes life as a US military child just 30 miles from the North Korean Border during the 1970s. The political landscape of the time was tumultuous, marked by significant events such as the assassination of President Park and a number of serious border incursions and incidents. Flynn reflects on how these events affected his understanding of the world around him, even as a child. He recalls the fear instilled by air raid drills and the constant presence of military operations, which painted a stark picture of being within artillery range of North Korea. Despite the challenges, Flynn cherishes the friendships formed with other military families and the shared experiences that came with living on post. The camaraderie among the children of service members created a sense of belonging, even in a transient lifestyle. From a young age, Flynn was exposed to the vibrant Korean culture, participating in school field trips and learning the language. These experiences fostered a deep appreciation for th

Dallas, 22 November 1963. The main event is supposed to be on the appropriately named Main Street. News footage shows office workers leaning out of windows, peering at the motorcade through a blizzard of ticker tape. On the sidewalks, the crowds are fifty deep, a wall of noise and celebration. Everyone thinks this is the place to be. Well, nearly everyone.... A few blocks away, in Dealey Plaza, the scene is different. There is no ticker tape here, and the crowds are thin. A dressmaker with vertigo films the action balanced on a concrete plinth. A man is opening an umbrella even though it isn’t raining, a construction worker will claim he was sent here by God and three mysterious tramps who will shortly be arrested. I spoke with Martin Fitzgerald, who has written a new book, The Umbrella Man and Other Stories.  This is not a book about who killed John F. Kennedy or why he was assassinated. This is a book about memory, how we construct our shared history and what happens when your life is defined by a singl

40 years ago at 1:23 a.m. on April 26, 1986, a routine safety test inside Reactor Four at the Chornobyl Nuclear Power Plant spiralled into the worst nuclear disaster in history. This episode traces the catastrophe from the control room, where exhausted operators struggled with an unstable reactor they did not fully understand, to the streets of Pripyat, where thousands of residents woke the next morning unaware that radioactive contamination had already settled around them. Through a dramatic, chronological account, I examine the fatal combination of human pressure, flawed reactor design, secrecy, and delayed decision-making that turned a technical failure into a global crisis. The story follows the night shift, the firefighters who rushed toward a blaze they believed was ordinary, the officials in Moscow who hesitated to tell the truth, and the liquidators who later entered lethal zones to contain what could not be undone. This is not only the story of an explosion. It is the story of a system bui

Juli begins by recounting her early years in East Berlin, a time marked by the tragic loss of her father. Drafted into the army just days before her birth, her father continually deserted to see his family, ultimately leading to his untimely death. This early loss left Juli and her mother to navigate a harsh landscape in East Germany alone. Life in East Berlin was a world of contrasts. Juli describes the indoctrination she experienced in school, where lessons were steeped in socialist propaganda. The Berlin Wall, a symbol of division and oppression, loomed large in her family’s life, cutting them off from relatives in the West. Despite the regime’s efforts to control information, Juli’s family found ways to glimpse the outside world through Western television channels, fuelling her desire for freedom. As Juli grew older, she became increasingly aware of the regime’s lies and the oppressive nature of the state. The revolutionary movements of the late 1980s, sparked by events like the Tiananmen Square ma

Chris was a US Marine assigned to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, a sprawling US base on the Communist island of Cuba. Chris describes the guard duty along the fence line, where the proximity to the Cuban border created an unusual tension. Chris also shares anecdotes of encounters with defectors and the fascinating dynamics of life on the base. From observing Cuban life across the fence to the camaraderie among Marines, his stories paint a vivid picture of military life. Chris also touches on the challenges faced by service members, including the isolation and the impact of alcohol on morale. With mandatory counselling sessions addressing alcoholism, the veteran reflects on the importance of mental health support within the military community. Episode Extras ⁠https://coldwarconversations.com/episode451/ Go to ⁠⁠https://surfshark.com/coldwardeal⁠⁠ or use code COLDWARDEAL at checkout to get 4 extra months of Surfshark VPN!  Help me preserve Cold War history via a simple monthly donation, You’ll become part

In this episode, historian and writer Michael G. Stroud explores how decades of political instability drew the Soviet Union into Afghanistan in 1979—and why the intervention quickly spiralled into a protracted and unwinnable war. From the struggle to control vast, rugged terrain to the challenge of winning support from a fiercely independent population, we examine the realities faced by Soviet and Afghan government forces. At the centre of the discussion are the battles for Zhawar, a vast cave complex on the Afghan-Pakistan border that served as a critical Mujahideen stronghold. Through two major assaults, we uncover how guerrilla tactics, terrain, and resilience repeatedly frustrated a technologically superior force. These battles reveal a broader, enduring truth: in Afghanistan, military victory is one thing—but lasting control is something else entirely. Linked episodes The Soviet Afghan War https://coldwarconversations.com/episode338/ Episode Extras https://coldwarconversations.com/epi

Former Legal Director MI5 & MI6, David Bickford, takes us behind the scenes of one of the most unusual and precarious postings of the Cold War. Arriving in Berlin in 1979, the city is still technically under Allied occupation—surrounded by East Germany and governed through a complex web of agreements dating back to the Second World War. He recounts the day-to-day realities of maintaining access routes into the city, negotiating with the Soviets without the backing of force, and managing constant disputes over transport, tariffs, and air corridors. Against the backdrop of rising tensions following the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, David reveals how fragile the balance really was—and how close things could come to escalation. We also hear extraordinary stories from inside Spandau Prison, home to Nazi war criminal Rudolf Hess, and the bizarre logistical and political challenges of managing a prison built for hundreds but housing just one inmate. With vivid personal memories, this episode offers a rare, h

Ihor reflects on his time serving as an officer in the Soviet Union’s Ministry of Interior troops. After volunteering for military service, he found himself travelling from Lviv to Lithuania to begin officer training in communications and field operations. The training program brought together recruits from across the Soviet Union and beyond communications; these troops had a wide range of responsibilities—from guarding strategic facilities to responding to hostage crises and public disturbances. This is a rare opportunity to hear the everyday realities of military service inside the Soviet security structure. Listen to Ihor's first episode here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode447/ Episode extras here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode448/ Linked episodes Moscow Coup - Brett, a US student's account  Moscow Coup - Kieran, a UK student's account  Moscow Coup - How the BBC announced the coup   Training to be a US Army Tank Commander Defending the Fulda Gap  Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠h

Born in Lviv in Ukraine, in 1958, Ihor grew up in a city where borders shifted, but memories endured. In this episode, he recalls a childhood shaped by silence, censorship, and family stories that could only be told in private. While official history came from Moscow, a very different past survived in the countryside—passed down by grandparents who had lived through empire, war, and occupation. This is a unique personal account of what it meant to grow up in Soviet Ukraine in the 1950s and 60s. Episode extras here ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://coldwarconversations.com/episode447⁠⁠ Go to ⁠⁠⁠https://surfshark.com/coldwardeal⁠⁠⁠ or use code COLDWARDEAL at checkout to get 4 extra months of Surfshark VPN! Help me preserve Cold War history via a simple monthly donation, You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and receive a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank-you, and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://coldwarconversations.com/

During the Cold War, some of the most dangerous encounters between East and West took place far beneath the ocean’s surface. I speak with historian Dr. Paul Brown, author of Secret Warriors: British Submarines during the Cold War. Brown reveals the extraordinary covert missions carried out by Royal Navy submarines as they monitored Soviet naval bases near Murmansk and the Barents Sea. British boats gathered vital intelligence by recording the acoustic signatures of Soviet submarines, trailing enemy vessels, and observing major naval exercises. These missions were risky and occasionally resulted in collisions, such as the dramatic incident involving HMS Warspite in 1968. Along the way, Brown shares remarkable stories of Cold War espionage at sea, including a daring intelligence operation where a British submarine secretly observed the Soviet aircraft carrier Kiev from just a few feet away. This is a rare glimpse into one of the Cold War’s most secretive battlefields: the depths of the ocean. Buy the book

Lt Col Rob “Z-Man” Zettel is the author of American MiG Pilot - Inside the Top Secret USAF “Red Eagles. He tells the Red Eagles story for the first time through the experiences of a pilot who flew Soviet MiGs to their maximum performance in simulated combat engagements, often several times a day, against some of the very best fighter pilots hand-picked from the ranks of the USAF, US Navy and US Marine Corps. With controls labelled in Russian and the only spare parts being the ones they could salvage, the pilots who climbed into the MiGs - the Red Eagles - accepted all of the risks associated with operating these aircraft. Rob’s vivid accounts of training engagements put the reader right in the cockpit as he describes what it was like to be there day in and day out at one of the most access-restricted airfields in the entire USAF, flying MiGs. In part two of our story, we join him for his first interview for the Red Eagles. Buy the book here and support the podcast⁠ Episode extras here ⁠https://coldwa

Rob “Z-Man” Zettel is the author of American MiG Pilot - Inside the Top Secret USAF “Red Eagles. In part one of a two-part episode, he reveals how he made it into this top-secret US operation that wouldn't feel out of place in 'Top Gun'. From a high school student with no aviation background, Rob discovered he had a natural aptitude for flying via the USAF Reserve Officer Training Corps. He then joined the USAF, progressing to an Aggressor Squadron where his unit replicated enemy tactics, techniques, and procedures. Rob shares anecdotes of training, close calls in the air, and the intense journey through pilot training. He provides a vivid account of training engagements that puts you right in the cockpit. ⁠Buy the book here and support the podcast⁠ Episode extras here ⁠https://coldwarconversations.com/episode444 Go to https://surfshark.com/coldwardeal or use code COLDWARDEAL at checkout to get 4 extra months of Surfshark VPN! Help me preserve Cold War history via a simple monthly donation, You’ll

I speak with Bruce Berglund, the author of The Moscow Playbook: How Russia Used, Abused, and Transformed Sports in the Hunt for Power, which is a fascinating journey through the world of Soviet sports and its intricate ties to politics as a means of soft power and national pride. We learn how the Soviets achieved strategic advantage through women's sports, the abuse of amateur status, the controversial topic of doping and how sports science revolutionised the performance of athletes. Listeners will also hear about the iconic "Miracle on Ice" ice hockey game in 1980, where the U.S. amateur team defeated the seasoned Soviet professionals, and how this event was perceived on both sides of the Cold War divide. Buy the book here and support the podcast Episode extras here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode443 Go to https://surfshark.com/coldwardeal or use code COLDWARDEAL at checkout to get 4 extra months of Surfshark VPN! Help me preserve Cold War history via a simple monthly donation, You’ll bec

Susan Miller continues the story of her CIA career, recalling a harrowing experience of the 1991 US embassy fire in Moscow, and the unexpected humanity displayed by a KGB officer who helped save lives during the crisis. Episode one is here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode441/ In Poland, a KGB walk-in claims to have microfiche containing the names of every spy the KGB was running overseas. And as CIA Chief in Vilnius, Susan is confronted by another KGB walk-in with a box of weapons-grade uranium Listen to part one here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode441/ Episode extras ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://coldwarconversations.com/episode442/ Help me preserve Cold War history via a simple monthly donation, You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/⁠⁠⁠⁠ If a monthly contribution is not your cup of

I explore the remarkable journey of a CIA operations officer who transitioned from a quiet childhood in California to the thrilling world of espionage. What began as a joke application to the CIA turned into a life-changing opportunity. The episode delves into her rigorous training, including paramilitary courses that prepared her for the realities of fieldwork and thrilling stories from her time in Moscow during the late 1980s. Susan also gives tradecraft insights on surveillance techniques and the unique challenges faced by women in intelligence roles during that era. Episode extras ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://coldwarconversations.com/episode441⁠⁠ Help me preserve Cold War history via a simple monthly donation, You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to ⁠⁠⁠https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/⁠⁠⁠ If a monthly contribution is not your cup