Equiosity

This is Part 4 of our conversation with Dr Susan Friedman. Dr Friedman is one of our favorite guests on this podcast. She’s a professor emeritus in the psychology department at Utah State University. She’s been a long-time member of the Clicker Expo Faculty and she runs the very popular on-line course Behavior Works: Learning and Living with Animals. In Part 1 Susan shared with us her most recent project - the Behavior Works Zoo School which you can read about at BWZS.org. We talked about why teams matter. In Part 2 the conversation centered around how to develop great working teams. We talked about what it means to be a leader. How do you maintain control and support a creative, generative team? Susan discussed ways to maintain healthy teams. In Part 3 we talked about influence. Susan reminded us that we have evolved to be influenced by our environment. To build an effective team you need to get the explanation for a person’s behavior out of the inside of the person and into the environment wh

This is Part 3 of our conversation with Dr Susan Friedman. Dr Friedman is one of our favorite guests on this podcast. She’s a professor emeritus in the psychology department at Utah State University. She’s been a long-time member of the Clicker Expo Faculty and she runs the very popular on-line course Behavior Works: Learning and Living with Animals. In Part 1 Susan shared with us her most recent project - the Behavior Works Zoo School which you can read about at BWZS.org. We talked about why teams matter. In Part 2 the conversation centered around how to develop great working teams. We talked about what it means to be a leader. How do you maintain control and support a creative, generative team? Susan discussed ways to maintain healthy teams. Part 3 is about influence. Susan reminds us that we have evolved to be influenced by our environment. To build an effective team you need to get the explanation for a person’s behavior out of the inside of the person and into the environment where it bel

This is Part 2 of our conversation with Dr Susan Friedman. Dr Friedman is one of our favorite guests on this podcast. She’s a professor emeritus in the psychology department at Utah State University. She’s been a long-time member of the Clicker Expo Faculty and she runs the very popular on-line course Behavior Works: Learning and Living with Animals. In Part 1 Susan shared with us her most recent project - the Behavior Works Zoo School which you can read about at BWZS.org. We talked about why teams matter. In Part 2 the conversation centers around how to develop great working teams. We talk about what it means to be a leader. How do you maintain control and support a creative, generative team? Susan talks about the different reinforcers people chase. There are individuals who want to be the empire builders. You can often recognize them by how often they use the word “I” in their presentations. And there are people who enjoy being part of a team, who enjoy collaborating and being influenced by

This is Part 1 of a five part conversation with Dr Susan Friedman. Dr Friedman is one of our favorite guests on this podcast. She’s a professor emeritus in the psychology department at Utah State University. She’s been a long-time member of the Clicker Expo Faculty and she runs the very popular on-line course Behavior Works: Learning and Living with Animals. In part 1 Susan shares with us her most recent project - the Behavior Works Zoo School which you can read about at BWZS.org. This four part conversation grew out of a wonderful afternoon’s conversation that I had with Susan in the Fall of 2025. I had just finished editing the podcast interview that Dominique and I did with Rick Hester and Amy Schilz from the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo. I was telling Susan how much I had enjoyed the conversation and how impressed I was with both Rick and Amy. They are both part of Susan’s Behavior Works team. Susan’s mentoring was very much in evidence, and that prompted a great discussion about teams and team buildi

This is Part 5 of a conversation with Lucy Butler of River Haven Animal Sanctuary, and Dr Stephanie Jones and her grad student, Sofia Abuin. In Part 1 we talked about the common links between teaching people and working with animals. We talked about coercion, control, and most importantly about empathy. In part 2 Stephanie described a pilot study she and her colleagues set up at the River Haven Animal Sanctuary. Shaping can be incredibly challenging to teach well. Often people refer to the science and the art of training. What Stephanie and her colleague Michael Yencha wanted to investigate is what makes up the “art” part of training? Is there a way to tease this apart so it becomes less mystery and more approachable through science? In Part 3 Stephanie reminded us that the goal of this research project was to help new trainers shape well. That was the reason for the latency criterion. They were using it to judge when to shift criteria. They weren’t looking at any other aspects of shaping. The

This is Part 4 of a conversation with Lucy Butler of River Haven Animal Sanctuary, and Dr Stephanie Jones and her grad student, Sofia Abuin In Part 1 we talked about the common links between teaching people and working with animals. We talked about coercion, control, and most importantly about empathy. In part 2 Stephanie described a pilot study she and her colleagues set up at the River Haven Animal Sanctuary. Shaping can be incredibly challenging to teach well. Often people refer to the science and the art of training. What Stephanie and her colleague Michael Yencha wanted to investigate is what makes up the “art” part of training? Is there a way to tease this apart so it becomes less mystery and more approachable through science? In Part 3 Stephanie reminded us that the goal of this research project was to help new trainers shape well. That was the reason for the latency criterion. They were using it to judge when to shift criteria. They weren’t looking at any other aspects of shaping. They

This is Part 3 of a conversation with Lucy Butler of River Haven Animal Sanctuary, and Dr Stephanie Jones and her grad student, Sofia Abuin Dr. Jones graduated with her PhD in Behavior Analysis from West Virginia University in 2021. Her primary research focuses on effects of implementer errors that occur during well-established behavioral treatments. To meet this aim, she conducts laboratory and applied research with the aim of supporting development of robust behavioral interventions. She started teaching and conducting research at Salve Regina University in 2021 and is the principal investigator for the Translational Research and Applied Intervention Lab. IN PART 1 we talked about the common links between teaching people and working with animals. We talked about coercion, control, and most importantly about empathy. In part 2 Stephanie described a pilot study she and her colleagues set up at the River Haven Animal Sanctuary. Shaping can be incredibly challenging to teach well. Often people refer to

Finding Science in the Art of Training This is Part 2 of a conversation with Lucy Butler of River Haven Animal Sanctuary, and Dr Stephanie Jones and her grad student, Sofia Abuin Dr. Jones graduated with her PhD in Behavior Analysis from West Virginia University in 2021. Her primary research focuses on effects of implementer errors that occur during well-established behavioral treatments. To meet this aim, she conducts laboratory and applied research with the aim of supporting development of robust behavioral interventions. She started teaching and conducting research at Salve Regina University in 2021 and is the principal investigator for the Translational Research and Applied Intervention Lab. Through her lab, she supports research engagement of students at the undergraduate, master’s, and doctoral training levels. She publishes in and reviews for several peer-reviewed behavior-analytic journals, such as the Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis and Education and Treatment of Children. Good training is v

This is Part One of a conversation with Lucy Butler of River Haven Animal Sanctuary, Dr Stephanie Jones and her grad student, Sofia Abuin Dr. Jones is new to Equiosity. She graduated with her PhD in Behavior Analysis from West Virginia University in 2021. Her primary research focuses on effects of implementer errors that occur during well-established behavioral treatments. To meet this aim, she conducts laboratory and applied research with the aim of supporting development of robust behavioral interventions. She started teaching and conducting research at Salve Regina University in 2021 and is the principal investigator for the Translational Research and Applied Intervention Lab. Through her lab, she supports research engagement of students at the undergraduate, master’s, and doctoral training levels. She publishes in and reviews for several peer-reviewed behavior-analytic journals, such as the Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis and Education and Treatment of Children. Good training is very much empha

Dominique is back! Dominique took some time off over the summer. Now she is back and full of enthusiasm for the recent Equiosity conversations she’s been listening to. In Part 1 we talked about the recent podcast with Rick Hester, Amy Shilz, from the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo and Lucy Butler from the River Haven Animal Sanctuary in Rhode Island. We talked about the enrichment programs at the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo and the four operant freedoms. In Part 2 we shared the story of Oliver, a pony who is now living at Lucy’s River Haven Animal Sanctuary. Prior to his rescue, he spent seven years locked in a stall with zero turnout. We shared a recent experience Lucy had with her vet. The visit highlighted how resilient animals can be. We also talked about bits and bridling. In Part 3 we continue with discussion of bits as Dominique returns us to the question of whether or not to use bits at all. My answer comes straight from the “horse’s mouth”, no pun intended. We look at what horses tell us. In partic

Dominique is back! Dominique took some time off over the summer. Now she is back and full of enthusiasm for the recent equiosity conversations she’s been listening to. In Part 1 we talked about the recent podcast with Rick Hester, Amy Shilz, from the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo and Lucy Butler from the River Haven Animal Sanctuary in Rhode Island. We talked about the enrichment programs at the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo and the four operant freedoms. In Part 2 we shared the story of Oliver, a pony who is now living at Lucy’s River Haven Animal Sanctuary. Prior to his rescue, he spent seven years locked in a stall with zero turnout. We shared a recent experience Lucy had with her vet. The visit highlighted how resilient animals can be. We also talked about bits and bridling.

Dominique is back! Dominique took some time off over the summer. Now she is back and full of enthusiasm for the recent Equiosity conversations she’s been listening to. In this episode we revisit the conversation we had with Rick Hester, Amy Schilz and Lucy Butler. Rick is the Curator of Behavioral Husbandry for the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo in Colorado. Amy is in charge of the giraffe at the zoo. Lucy Butler and her husband own the River Haven Animal Sanctuary in Rhode Island. With Dominique we revisit the four operant freedoms, and we consider the parallels between the way zoo animals are managed past and present and the way we keep horses. There is so much we can learn from modern zoo keepers. As Dominique says at the start of the conversation, she’s been looking through some of the traditional horse training books she owns and they just seem so out of date especially when she compares them to the work that Rick and Amy talk about. Her takeaways from their interview make for a lively conversation.

This is part three of our conversation with Dr Claire St Peter from the University of West Virginia where she is currently the Chair of the Department of Psychology, and Dr Carol Pilgrim, a Professor Emerit in the Psychology Department at the University of North Carolina Wilmington. Dr Pilgrim has received many honors throughout her career including the North Carolina Board of Governors Teaching Excellence Award, the Faculty Scholarship Award, the Chancellor’s Teaching Excellence Award, the ABAI Student Committee Outstanding Mentor Award in 2006, and the ABAI Distinguished Service to Behavior Analysis award in 2017. Her research contributions include both basic and applied behavior analysis, with an emphasis in human operant behavior and relational stimulus control. Our subject is for this podcast is stimulus control. In Part 1 Dr. Pilgrim started us out with definitions and an introduction to the subject. She shared the story of Clever Hans, a horse who was said to be able to do complicated math probl

This is part two of our conversation with Dr Claire St Peter from the University of West Virginia where she is currently the Chair of the Department of Psychology, and Dr Carol Pilgrim, a Professor Emerit in the Psychology Department at the University of North Carolina Wilmington. Dr Pilgrim has received many honors throughout her career including the North Carolina Board of Governors Teaching Excellence Award, the Faculty Scholarship Award, the Chancellor’s Teaching Excellence Award, the ABAI Student Committee Outstanding Mentor Award in 2006, and the ABAI Distinguished Service to Behavior Analysis award in 2017. Her research contributions include both basic and applied behavior analysis, with an emphasis in human operant behavior and relational stimulus control. Our subject is for this podcast is stimulus control. In Part 1 Dr. Pilgrim started us out with definitions and an introduction to the subject. She shared the story of Clever Hans, a horse who was said to be able to do complicated math problem

We’ve covered a lot of topics with behavior analysts. This week we’re talking with Dr. Carol Pilgrim and Dr. Claire St Peter about stimulus control. Dr Claire St Peter is from the University of West Virginia, where she is currently the Chair of the Department of Psychology. Claire has been on this podcast many times. Claire is not only a behavior analyst she is also a horse person. When I say that everything is connected to everything else, Claire has been helping us to see the connection between behavior analysis and horse training. We wrote an article together on loopy training which was published in 2022 in the Journal of Experimental Analysis of Behavior. The title was: Connecting animal trainers and behavior analysts through loopy training. Claire has gone on connecting animal trainers and behaviors analysts via this podcast. This past spring I received a SABA award for all the equiosity episodes Dominique and I have done on topics directly related to behavior analysis. When Claire and I met

For the episode we’re continuing our conversation with Rick Hester, Amy Shilze and Lucy Butler. Rick is the Curator of Behavioral Husbandry for the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo in Colorado. He oversees all the zoo's behavioral programming. His work includes the zoo's animal training for husbandry, medical, and public show behaviors, enrichment, developing programs to improve problem behavior situations, the zoo's formal animal welfare assessments, and exhibit design for behavior goals. We’re also joined by Amy Schilze, who has the dream job of working with the Cheyenne Mountain zoo’s giraffe. Amy is the Senior Animal Behaviorist for Cheyenne Mountain Zoo's International Center for the Care and Conservation of Giraffe, where she runs giraffe workshops and conferences, both stateside and internationally. Both Rick and Amy also partner with Dr. Susan Friedman and her Behavior Works consulting team so you’ll hear a lot of references to Susan throughout this conversation. In addition to Rick and Amy, I invited Lu

For the episode we’re continuing our conversation with Rick Hester, Amy Shilze and Lucy Butler. Rick is the Curator of Behavioral Husbandry for the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo in Colorado. He oversees all the zoo's behavioral programming. His work includes the zoo's animal training for husbandry, medical, and public show behaviors, enrichment, developing programs to improve problem behavior situations, the zoo's formal animal welfare assessments, and exhibit design for behavior goals. We’re also joined by Amy Schlis, who has the dream job of working with the Cheyanne Mountain zoo’s giraffe. Amy is the Senior Animal Behaviorist for Cheyenne Mountain Zoo's International Center for the Care and Conservation of Giraffe, where she runs giraffe workshops and conferences, both stateside and internationally. Both Rick and Amy also partner with Dr. Susan Friedman and her Behavior Works consulting team so you’ll hear a lot of references to Susan throughout this conversation. In addition to Rick and Amy, I invited Luc

For the episode we’re heading to the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo for a conversation with Rick Hester, Amy Schilz and Lucy Butler. Rick is the Curator of Behavioral Husbandry for the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo in Colorado. He oversees all the zoo's behavioral programming. His work includes the zoo's animal training for husbandry, medical, and public show behaviors, enrichment, developing programs to improve problem behavior situations, the zoo's formal animal welfare assessments, and exhibit design for behavior goals. We’re also joined by Amy Schilz who has the dream job of working with the Cheyanne Mountain zoo’s giraffe. Amy is the Senior Animal Behaviorist for Cheyenne Mountain Zoo's International Center for the Care and Conservation of Giraffe, where she runs giraffe workshops and conferences, both stateside and internationally. Both Rick and Amy also partner with Dr. Susan Friedman and her Behavior Works consulting team so you’ll hear a lot of references to Susan throughout this conversation. In addition to

This is part 3 of a conversation with Michaela Hempen and Lucy Butler about their visit in August to attend Anja Beran’s 12th International Workshop held at her stable in Bavaria. Both Michaela and Lucy have been guests on the podcast many times before. Michaela is well known for the research project she did on the operant control of cribbing. With her own horses she has been using my work to help make Anja’s beautiful riding more accessible. This year Michaela helped interpret Anja’s work for a group of clicker trainers who attended the workshop. Lucy was one of the people in that group. In part 1 Lucy shared her first impressions of Anja’s work. She described the facility and some of the horses she watched. Many of these horses are at the foundation because Anja was their last chance. They were on their way to slaughter. These were young horses who had been crippled by inappropriate training. Anja’s work not only shows that good riding doesn’t have to harm horses. It can heal them. In Part 2

This is part 2 of a conversation with Michaela Hempen and Lucy Butler about their visit in August to attend Anja Beran’s 12th International Workshop held at her stable in Bavaria. Both Michaela and Lucy have been guests on the podcast many times before. Michaela is well known for the research project she did on the operant control of cribbing. With her own horses she has been using my work to help make Anja’s beautiful riding more accessible. This year Michaela helped interpret Anja’s work for a group of clicker trainers who attended the workshop. Lucy was one of the people in that group. In part 1 Lucy shared her first impressions of Anja’s work. She described the facility and some of the horses she watched. Many of these horses are at the foundation because Anja was their last chance. They were on their way to slaughter. These were young horses who had been crippled by inappropriate training. Anja’s work not only shows that good riding doesn’t have to harm horses. It can heal them. In this e