Gospel Tangents Podcast

As we end 2025, I thought I’d share an old interview titled “Bombs in Salt Lake.” This is from my first year with Curt Bench. Curt actually called Mark Hofmann to warn Mark there was a bomber out there, not knowing Mark was the bomber. We’ll discuss Mark Hofmann’s forgeries and murders from 1985, the trial, and more from this 2017 interview. Check out our conversation… https://youtu.be/K54RGgJ1kYc Don’t miss our other conversations on the Hofmann murders & forgeries: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_people_historical/mark-hofmann/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved The late Curt Bench, owner of Benchmark Books, provides a firsthand account of the Mark Hofmann forgery and bombing saga. As a former employee of Deseret Book and a business associate of Hofmann, Bench offers a unique perspective on how a “rock star” document hunter transformed into a cold-blooded killer. The Rise of a Master Forger Mark Hofmann established himself by “discov

We’re diving deep into the First VIsion accounts with Historian Dan Vogel. He offers a deep dive into the historical developments of early Mormonism, challenging both critics and believers to look closer at the documents. What if Joseph Smith was neither a simple con man nor a traditional prophet, but something more complex? https://youtu.be/uVVJcgmyUKA Don’t miss our other conversations on the First Vision: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/first-vision/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved “Pious Fraud” Theory Vogel describes himself as a “moderate” critic who seeks the most charitable view of Joseph Smith that a non-believer can hold. He proposes the theory of “pious fraud,” viewing Smith as an “inspired pseudepigraphist”. In this framework, Smith believed he was genuinely called by God to teach true doctrine but used intentional deception—such as the physical gold plates—to provide “evidence” that would make it harde

Historian Dan Vogel breaks down the complex history of the Book of Abraham, beginning with the 1835 purchase of Egyptian mummies in Kirtland, Ohio. Rather than seeing the Kirtland Egyptian Papers as a failed attempt by scribes to understand Egyptian, Vogel argues they were Joseph Smith’s own working papers. He demonstrates how Smith used these documents to “brainstorm” a new theological framework, allowing him to introduce doctrines like the priesthood ban and the plurality of gods under the guise of an ancient text. This is a replay of my 2019 interview with Dan. https://youtu.be/sFKoRTTZ4SU Don’t miss our other conversations with Dan: https://gospeltangents.com/people/dan-vogel Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Arrival of the Mummies and Papyrus The story begins in July 1835, when Michael Chandler arrived in Kirtland with four mummies and several papyrus scrolls. Joseph Smith purchased the collection for $2,400 and quickly identified the records as the writings of the biblical

Recently, I had the fascinating opportunity to delve into the beliefs practices, and Strangite priesthood views with Gary Weber of the Strangite Church, a lesser-known branch of Mormonism. This discussion sheds light on many intriguing aspects of their faith, highlighting both commonalities and distinct differences from the more widely known LDS (Latter-day Saint) Church. https://youtu.be/52ZIzhsxMKY Understanding Strangite Priesthood: A Core Difference One of the most significant distinctions discussed was the Strangite understanding of the priesthood and its associated “keys.” While the Melchizedek priesthood holds specific keys related to office, it does not encompass all keys. According to Gary Weber, the Melchizedek priesthood cannot evolve to ordain a prophet. Instead, they believe a prophet can only be ordained by an angel, as was the case for Moses, Joseph Smith, and James J. Strang. The fundamental principle here is that “the lesser cannot ordain the greater”. This leads to a

Interracial Marriage is critical to the reasons for a priesthood/temple ban on black LDS Church members. For many years, the official position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) was that “it is not known precisely why, how, or when this restriction [on the priesthood for male members of African descent] began in the church.” However, historical research utilizing early records suggests that the origins of the ban are quite specific, pointing to a confluence of events involving race and interracial sexual relations (often called “amalgamation” or “miscegenation” at the time) that served as the primary catalyst. https://youtu.be/V3DtkTfLazM Don’t miss our other conversations on the priesthood ban: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/racial-priesthood-temple-ban/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved 0:00 Meet Stassi Cram Priesthood Before the Prejudice (1830–1846) Contradicting later restrictions, evidence shows that Black men held the pri

Can women hold priesthood in LeBaron Mormon fundamentalism? Jacob Vidrine from Church of the Firstborn surprised me with his answer about women & priesthood! We also finish our conversation about the race ban in Brigham Young & Joseph Smith’s time. Check out our conversation, but it is only available to newsletter subscribers. Sign up at https://gospeltangents.com/newsletter! https://youtu.be/Xg9nt_4xu9M Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Nuance in the Priesthood Ban The discussion explores the often-simplified views of Brigham Young’s stance on race and slavery. While Brigham Young did articulate strong, lineage-based priesthood restrictions and opposed interracial marriage, he did not support slavery in the Utah Territory. Historically, it is argued that Young wanted to enact a form of gradual emancipation, aligning with Joseph Smith’s earlier ideas about compensating sl

When was Christ born? I held a livestream to tackle some of the most enduring mysteries surrounding the Christmas story, diving deep into scholarly debates concerning the timing of Christ’s birth, the nature of the Star of Bethlehem, and the identity and traditions surrounding the Wise Men. The discussion also included a giveaway of a free copy of Sand Tanner’s book, Lighthouse, authored by Ronald Huggins. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d0hOvJoXQc Don’t miss our other conversations about Christmas: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/christmas/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved The Great Dating Debate: When Was Christ Born? The discussion began by addressing the fact that the calendar we use today, created by the 6th-century monk Dionysius Exiguus. He mistakenly placed Christ’s birth several years too late. There is no Year Zero. Modern scholars generally agree that Herod the Great died in 4 BC, a crucial historical marker, meaning Jesus could not have been born as late as 1 BC

Many Mormon fundamentalists restrict blacks from joining despite the 1978 revelation that allowed black men to hold the priesthood. This is considered a landmark moment in LDS history, but many in Mormon fundamentalists believe this 1978 revelation marked the moment the mainstream Church lost its essential authority. This theological break, rooted in Brigham Young’s fiery declarations about race and priesthood lineage, is why most fundamentalist groups reject modern LDS temple work. https://youtu.be/Rp-2f0Uxuh4 Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Why Black Priesthood Revelation Nullified Authority for Fundamentalists The 1978 revelation that allowed black men to hold the priesthood is considered a landmark moment in LDS history, but for many in Mormon fundamentalism, this decision marked the moment the mainstream Church lost its essential authority. This theological break, rooted in Brigham Yo

The path to LeBaronism began when the speaker gained a testimony of the Adam-God doctrine, then accepted principles like rebaptism, eventually leading to a testimony of the Law of Adoption and connection with the Church of the Firstborn. https://youtu.be/AYwLSTRuidE Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved How LeBaron Group Practices Temple Work Without a Temple The quest for pure priesthood authority and the full restoration of doctrines—from Adam-God to the Law of Adoption—led one believer away from the mainstream LDS church and into the unique world of the Ross LeBaronites and the Church of the Firstborn. This journey highlights the fundamental difference between this fundamentalist group and larger organizations: their focus is on patriarchal authority and the function of ordinances, regardless of location. From Adam-God to Adoption: A Conversion Story The path into the Church of the Firstborn often

Tom Green gained notoriety for appearing on television with his plural family, which led to Utah prosecuting him after discovering one wife was “very underage,” resulting in his conviction for child polygamy and welfare fraud, or child rape according to one account, and a prison sentence https://youtu.be/KkQlU3KVllM Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Tom Green: Polygamy, Prison, & Quest for Community Tom Green, a controversial figure in Mormon fundamentalism, was a key claimant to the succession of Ross LeBaron, leader of the Church of the Firstborn. Green stuck with LeBaron until his death in 1996. On his deathbed, LeBaron reportedly did not name a clear successor but charged both Tom Green and Jerry Barlow to carry on his work. Green leveraged this instruction, claiming he had received higher temple ordinances from Ross, thereby being “anointed and appointed”. Green br

Fred Collier is one of the patriarchs of Ross LeBaron’s Church of the Firstborn. Fred tried to take over after Ross’s death and even converted Tom Green, an apostle in a rival group, “The Branch.” We’ll discuss more about how Fred’s group descends from Ross LeBaron. Check out our conversation… https://youtu.be/nTOU2ZYkNco Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission While the core authority of the Utah-based Church of the Firstborn traced back through Ross Wesley LeBaron’s unique patriarchal lineage derived from Benjamin F. Johnson, the movement’s doctrines and missionary success were significantly shaped by one influential follower: Fred Collier. Collier, who converted to fundamentalism in 1970, was described not as a professional historian but as a “self-trained historian&#

Ross Wesley LeBaron played the role of eccentric prophet. The second oldest son of patriarch Alma Dayer LeBaron Sr., carved a distinct path in Utah. Ross founded the Church of the Firstborn. His teachings presented a unique fundamentalist cosmology focused on distributing sacred authority rather than concentrating it, emphasizing that “the honor is in the work, not the title.” https://youtu.be/fHYDKiaoZ5o Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission Authority Above the Church: Dissemination vs. Concentration Ross LeBaron’s theology centered on the concept of a higher order of priesthood existing “above the [LDS] Church” structure. This authority, which he called the Patriarchal Priesthood, originated with the keys restored by Moses, Elias, and Elijah in the Kirtland Temple (D&C 110). This higher pries

Evil Ervil LeBaron was a killer. He killed not only his brother Joel LeBaron, but had his wives kill rival Rulon Allred. He was known to have a hit list of others, including President Spencer Kimball of the LDS Church. Jacob Vidrine discusses these events and we’ll discuss the recent drug killings to a LeBaron family in Mexico. Check out our conversation… https://youtu.be/23RT8A5HEww Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission God’s Executioner: How Ervil LeBaron’s Quest for Authority Led to Murder and Stigma When discussing Mormon fundamentalism, the name LeBaron often conjures images of violence and notoriety, largely due to the actions of Ervil LeBaron. Though the family’s original movement—the Church of the Firstborn—was rooted in unique priesthood claims tracing back to Nauvoo, Ervil’s descent into murder and e

1950s were a tumultuous time for Mormon polygamists. Not only did police jail many for polygamy, but there were Mormon Fundamentalist Schisms. Many groups including Joseph Musser and the LeBaron families split apart. Jacob Vidrine of the Church of the Firstborn gives more details. Check out our conversation… https://youtu.be/1hdRUUQ8Gv0 Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission Dramatic 1955 Schism that Defined the LeBaron Legacy The history of Mormon fundamentalism is filled with contested authority claims, but few are as immediate and dramatic as the split that occurred between Ross and Joel LeBaron in the mid-1950s. This schism not only severed the nascent Church of the Firstborn into two distinct movements but also cemented radically different interpretations of priesthood authority that traced back to Nauvoo. From

Will there be polygamy in heaven? We're diving into Ross LeBaron story with Jacob Vidrine of the Church of the Firstborn. I'll also ask Jacob if polygamy a requirement for the Celestial Kingdom. Will it be monogamy or polygamy in heaven? His answer surprised me! We discuss Law of Adoption & the Manifesto ending polygamy in the LDS Church as well. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/m20kOKhSdLA 0:00 1st Successor: Ross LeBaron 13:57 Law of Adoption 22:03 Requirement for Polygamy in Heaven? 28:59 Manifesto Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission Nauvoo Foundation: Priesthood Above Church To understand the LeBaron claim, one must look back to Nauvoo Mormonism, where Joseph Smith introduced the concept of higher orders of priesthood. This "highest order of the Melchizedek Priesthood" was often referred to as t

Jacob Vidrine discusses LeBaron succession! You may have heard of Ervil, Joel, and Ross LeBaron. Who took charge after Alma Dayer LeBaron died? Check out our conversation.... https://youtu.be/6NckTz7ateA Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission LeBaron Divide: Priesthood, Power, & Struggle for the Birthright When the name LeBaron is mentioned in discussions of Mormon fundamentalism, often the first person who comes to mind is the notorious Ervil LeBaron, a murderer who had a hit list and was a murderer and died in jail. However, the complex history of the LeBaron family and their unique claims to priesthood authority—separate from most other fundamentalist groups like the FLDS, AUB, and Woolley-ites—reveals a fascinating succession crisis rooted deep in Nauvoo-era doctrine. We will discuss how the LeBarons obtained th

Jacob Vidrine tells how authority transferred from Benjamin F Johnson in Nauvoo to Alma Dayer LeBaron and the LeBaron groups. Check out our conversation... The LeBaron authority line, originating from Benjamin F. Johnson, is like a secret royal charter given directly by the king (Joseph Smith) to a trusted advisor, authorizing him to establish a new subsidiary branch of the kingdom. While other fundamentalist lines (Woolleyites) claim authority based on a later, more public decree (John Taylor's revelation), the LeBaron claim bypasses that decree entirely, asserting that they hold the direct, foundational keys passed down in private, reserved councils from the original founder, allowing them to continue the highest work of the kingdom regardless of later organizational changes. 0:00 Succession Crisis 11:15 End of Council of 50 19:45 Ben Johnson Ordains Grandsons 25:56 Ervil, Joel, Ross, & Dayer LeBaron 37:38 Woolley-ite Split Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/

Let’s look into the unique authority claims of the Church of the Firstborn, also often referred to by the term Ross LeBaron-ite. They claim authority through the Council of 50 in Nauvoo! This group represents an interesting fundamentalist branch because its line of authority is distinct from the majority of other fundamentalist groups, such as the FLDS and AUB, who primarily trace their authority through the Lorin Woolley story. https://youtu.be/HeX3jEvK0FQ Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission Three Lines of Fundamentalist Authority Most Mormon fundamentalists—around 80% to 90%—trace their priesthood origin story back to the Lorin Woolley story. This story holds that John Taylor received an 1886 revelation telling him that plural marriage was never to be taken from the earth, leading him to set apart men (including

I'm excited to introduce Jacob Vidrine, a member of Church of the Firstborn. This is a group that is part of the LeBaron fundamentalist group. Jacob is a human encyclopedia of Mormn fundamentalism, and we're going to dive deep into how the LeBaron group cross-pollinates with other fundamentalist groups. Check it out! 0:00 Intro LeBaron Family 4:16 Lorin Woolley Authority Claims 15:20 Kingston & LeBaron Claims 19:18 High Priest Apostles 21:05 Sidney Rigdon Trial 23:53 2nd Anointing-Patriarchal Succession For more info on Mormon fundamentalism: https://gospeltangents.com/denominations/fundamentalim/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission. When discussing Mormon Fundamentalism, most people—especially members of the LDS Church—immediately think of the FLDS or AUB (Apostolic United Brethren). These groups largely trace their origin back to the authority line popularized by Lorin Woolley. However, there is a fascin

Joseph Fielding Smith is the architect of controversial LDS orthodoxy. He has some controversial writings about Blacks and Ezra Taft Benson. We'll also delve into his role with Lowell Bennion, a BYU professor who was fired. Was JFS responsible or was it someone else? Matthew Bowman answers. We'll also dive into his role in shaping orthodoxy in the 20th century. Don't forget to check out Matt's amazing biography on Joseph Fielding Smith! Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/_aBWPp4i1OY Don't miss our other conversations with Matt: https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Joseph Fielding Smith: Architect of Controversial LDS Orthodoxy Joseph Fielding Smith described as a "lightning rod" due to some views considered politically incorrect today, particularly regarding race. Dr. Matt Bowman, author of "Joseph Fielding Smith, a Mormon Theologian," sheds light on Smith's impact on the church. One of the most uncomfortable aspects of Smith's