Thinkers50 Podcast

Cécile Béliot is the first female CEO of Bel Group, known for iconic cheese brands The Laughing Cow, Babybel, and Boursin, as well as GoGo squeeZ fruit pouches. As only the second executive from outside the founding family to lead the 150-year-old company, she shares how she’s honoring legacy while driving transformation in today’s challenging environment – proving that companies can deliver both profitability and sustainability. Cécile defines sustainability through two interconnected pillars: social impact for providers (fair wages, financing the transition to regenerative farming) and facilitating healthy eating habits for consumers. To embed this vision at the company’s core, Bel transformed the Chief Financial Officer role into Chief Global Impact Officer – a bold move that changed how the entire organization thinks about performance and accountability. Cécile’s provocation to business leaders everywhere is simple but powerful. Put an "AND" in everything you do. Not short-term or long-term. Not purpo

Frances Frei is a professor of technology and operations management at Harvard Business School and, together with her partner Anne Morriss, is the bestselling author of Uncommon Service: How to Win by Putting Customers at the Core of Your Business; Unleashed: The Unapologetic Leader's Guide to Empowering Everyone Around You; and Move Fast & Fix Things: The Trusted Leader’s Guide to Solving Hard Problems. Frances and Anne are #7 in the Thinkers50 Ranking. In this episode, Frances reveals the three pillars that define the architecture of trust, three key mistakes repeatedly made by organizations, and why "move fast and break things" is actually slower than moving fast and fixing things. Discover: • Why every trust breakdown can be traced to one of three dimensions: authenticity, logic, or empathy • Why you should look beyond the “usual suspects” when solving big problems and invite more “unusual suspects" to the table • Why AI struggles with trust – and the crucial difference between engagement and empathy T

Daniel Pink is one of the world's foremost authorities on work motivation and human behavior. His seven best-selling books include Drive, To Sell Is Human, When, The Power of Regret, and A Whole New Mind. Recorded in London’s historic Guildhall during the Thinkers50 London Summit & Awards Gala in November 2025, this conversation features Dan in dialogue with Provocateurs hosts Des Dearlove, Thinkers50 co-founder, and Geoff Tuff, Deloitte’s Global and US Sustainability Leader for Energy, Resources, and Industrials. In this episode we discover: • Why traditional “carrot and stick” motivators don’t work at work – and the three reasons organizations still cling to them • The three key forces that genuinely drive human performance: autonomy, mastery, and purpose • The three blind spots preventing leaders from unleashing these forces in their organizations Dan also challenges the tendency towards dehumanization in leadership and reveals how the emotion of regret, when properly harnessed, can transform leaders

Steve Goldbach, Geoff Tuff, and Kulleni Gebreyes of Deloitte join Stuart Crainer and Des Dearlove of Thinkers50 to reflect on their highlights and insights from the 2025 Provocateurs series. Featuring in-depth conversations with leaders and innovators, the 2025 Provocateurs explored pressing topics from sustainability and space exploration to digital health, public policy, and food systems innovation. Throughout the series, compelling stories emerged that illustrate the power of systems thinking, reframing narratives, and leadership under pressure. We heard about seaweed and rum in Barbados: a circular economy success story combining waste products to create fuel. We learned how modulating electrical motors reframes sustainability as efficiency, delivering rapid returns on investment. And we listened as astronaut Eileen Collins described the extreme pressure of an aborted rocket launch, exemplifying agility and preparation as the essence of leadership. The 2025 Provocateurs guests included: · Weslynn

In this Provocateurs podcast special recorded at the 2025 Thinkers50 London Summit & Awards Gala, creativity strategist Natalie Nixon discusses how organizations can harness creativity as a strategic business competency. Challenging the misconception that creativity belongs only to artists, Natalie uses her “wonder-rigor” framework to demonstrate that the best engineers, scientists, CFOs, and leaders toggle between imaginative exploration (wonder) and disciplined execution (rigor). This chaordic balance between chaos and order is essential, she says, for driving sustainable innovation. Turning to AI and the future of work, Natalie contends that technology offers an opportunity for more distributed, improvisational ways of working – which appeal in particular to Gen Z – and AI can actually humanize organizations by creating liminal space for deeper collaboration and wonder. Natalie is the author of The Creativity Leap: Unleash Curiosity, Improvisation and Intuition at Work (Berrett-Koehler, 2020), and Move

Anke Hampel is chief sustainability officer at ABB, a global technology leader in electrification and automation based in Zurich, and a member of the board of directors of ABB Germany. With a background in finance, procurement, supply chain, and innovation management in the consumer goods and packaging industry, Anke is driven by a mission to unite profit with purpose. Sustainability, she contends, is a business imperative, not a fluffy add-on. Moreover, sustainability is not the preserve of seasoned experts; everyone can and should play a role. In this special episode of the Provocateurs podcast recorded live at Climate Week New York, Anke presents the business case for sustainability and shares her learnings: • Integrate sustainability into strategy: align your entire portfolio to your purpose by embedding sustainability targets directly into financial planning. • Measure what matters: apply KPI’s to every phase of the product lifecycle to track circularity. • Collaborate actively: as resources decline, cl

Award-winning chef, chocolatier, and founder of Midunu, Selassie Atadika is a Time 2025 Earth Award honoree and Yale’s inaugural Global Table Fellow. In this compelling episode of Provocateurs, Selassie demonstrates how intentional food choices can reshape entire systems. Food is more than just sustenance, she contends, it’s a powerful tool for transformation, touching every aspect of our lives from economics to environmental policy, health, and culture. Drawing from her experiences across 44 African countries, Selassie’s philosophy of "new African cuisine" – where culture, community, and cuisine intersect with environment, sustainability, and economy – offers profound lessons for addressing global food system challenges, while celebrating local traditions and creating economic opportunities for smallholder farmers. Discover more about the innovative business model of Midunu – a nomadic dining concept that combines research, education, and culinary experiences – and how Selassie is “leading through deliciou

Trailblazer Eileen Collins is a retired NASA astronaut and former Air Force Colonel. In 1995, she became the first woman to pilot a space shuttle and in 1999, she became the first woman to command a space shuttle mission. Eileen's final mission in 2005 was commanding the critical return to flight mission, the first since the space shuttle Columbia disaster. Her memoir Through The Glass Ceiling to the Stars, was published in 2021. Provocateurs hosts Des Dearlove and Steve Goldbach talk to Eileen about her remarkable journey from a young girl in small town Elmira, New York, who dreamed of flying, to breaking the glass ceiling at NASA. Addressing the challenges of spaceflight, she reveals the importance of relentless preparation, the power of mentorship, and her evolution from an autocratic to collaborative leader. She also shares her three fundamental elements of leadership: 1. Know your job 2. Get the right people in place 3. Integrity: honesty and trust In a candid conversation, Eileen also reveals surpri

Karthik Ramanna is a professor of business and public policy at the University of Oxford's Blavatnik School of Government and author of The Age of Outrage: How to Lead in a Polarized World – recently named one of Thinkers50's Best Management Books of 2025. In this episode of The Provocateurs, Karthik identifies three distinctive forces shaping our current moment: profound uncertainty about the future driven by AI, climate change, and demographic shifts; deep distrust in institutions of governance that people feel have delivered a "raw deal"; and a shift away from global humanism toward economic and cultural nationalism. Discover the tools and techniques leaders can adopt not only to manage outrage but to manage in the age of outrage, including: - How to build an active listening network - A 5-step framework for maintaining calm - Lessons from “temperate leadership” Ideas, says Karthik, are everywhere, but implementation is everything. --- The executive’s participation in this podcast is solely for educa

Rajendra Pratap Gupta is a policymaker and author, a former advisor to the Health Minister of India, and a leading provocateur in digital health initiatives across the world. He is the founder of the Global Digital Health Summit, which aims to create the future of healthcare; global think-tank The Health Parliament, which collaborates with the world’s leading organizations to make health and well-being accessible to all; and the International Patients Union, which is dedicated to empowering patients in policymaking. Rajendra also works to advance education in digital health at the Academy of Digital Health Sciences, which is now the largest provider of digital health courses globally. In this episode, Rajendra draws on his extensive experience in private and public sectors to map out the future of healthcare. Discover: • How prioritising healthcare can win elections • The critical role of preemptive care over preventive care • How genetics and individual data is shifting healthcare “from bedside to website

Katie McGinty is the vice president and chief sustainability and external relations officer at Johnson Controls. In this episode she shares insights from her remarkable career spanning both public service – including as the first woman to chair the White House Council on Environmental Quality under President Clinton – and private sector leadership. Challenging the persistent myth that environmental initiatives harm the bottom line, Katie explains how sustainability and economic success are not opposing forces but complementary strategies, demonstrating through real-world examples how Johnson Controls achieves significant carbon reductions while generating substantial cost savings for clients. Key themes include: The importance of systems thinking in environmental solutions. How buildings can be transformed from climate problems to climate solutions. The power of technological innovation through efficiency, electrification, and digitalization. Drawing from her unique background in chemistry, policy, and b

Profit is Not the Only Value A sustainable systems scientist, Weslynne Ashton is professor of environmental management and sustainability at the Illinois Institute of Technology, where she also co-directs ID’s Food Systems Action Lab. Here she discusses her work in industrial ecology and the circular economy, drawing from her experiences growing up in Trinidad. Weslynne argues that businesses need to adopt a more holistic view of value creation and regeneration, moving beyond purely financial metrics. Weslynne Ashton’s research, teaching, and practice are oriented around transitioning socio-ecological systems to create more sustainable and regenerative business practices and emphasizes the importance of expanding beyond traditional views of capital to include eight different types: natural, human, financial, manufactured, social, political, cultural, and digital. But how do we get these multiple capitals onto the balance sheet of business? Find out more in this conversation with hosts Geoff Tuff and Des

The 2024 Provocateurs series featured nine inspiring thought leaders, entrepreneurs, and business authors who challenged us to re-think conventional approaches to leadership and management. Neri Karra Sillaman shared her remarkable story from refugee to building a multi-million-dollar sustainable fashion brand; Marcus Collins explored the hidden power of cultural influence in consumer behaviour; Lisa McKnight revealed how she transformed Barbie into a cultural phenomenon and billion-dollar success; and Andrew Winston redefined the role of business to create a thriving “net positive world”. One of the key highlights of the 2024 series was recording live at New York Climate Week with Paul Polman, former CEO of Unilever, who delivered an emotional and unequivocal call to action to address the “moral vacuum” in global leadership. We must cultivate leaders, he says, who are equipped to embrace restorative, reparative, and regenerative practices and lead with purpose. We also learnt leadership lessons from Amy

Transforming Barbie Executive vice president and chief brand officer of Mattel, Lisa McKnight is credited with leading the transformation of the Barbie brand. Under her leadership, Barbie became the number one global toy property in 2020 and 2021, and she redefined Barbie’s global social mission with the launch of the Dream Gap Project in 2018, a multi-year initiative which has positively impacted over 25 million girls. In this conversation with Steve Goldbach, leader of Deloitte’s sustainability practice in the US, and Des Dearlove, co-founder of Thinkers50, Lisa explains what drew her to the world of toys, why the Barbie brand had fallen out of touch with its market, and how she and her team tackled the challenge of making Barbie relevant again. Find out more about the importance of brands being consumer-centric and staying connected to culture, how Mattel overcame corporate reservations in the making of the Barbie movie, and why you need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable when making decisions.

Paul Polman is a business leader, campaigner, and co-author (with Andrew Winston) of Net Positive: How Courageous Companies Thrive By Giving More Than They Take, a Financial Times Business Book of the Year. Together with Andrew, Paul is ranked #3 on the Thinkers50 Ranking. As CEO of Unilever (2009-2019), Paul demonstrated that business can profit through purpose, delivering shareholder returns of 290% while the company consistently ranked 1st in the world for sustainability. Today he works across a range of organisations to deliver the UN Sustainable Development Goals, which he helped develop. In New York for the 2024 Climate Week, Paul sat down with Thinkers50 co-founder, Des Dearlove, and Steve Goldbach, head of Deloitte’s Sustainability Practice in the US, to discuss how business can be a force for good, what it means to be ‘net positive,’ and how to develop the next generation of leaders. He identified a fundamental moral vacuum in our current approach to global challenges and emphasised that addres

Andrew Winston is one of the most widely read writers and thinkers on sustainable business. His books on sustainability strategy include Green to Gold, The Big Pivot, and most recently, Net Positive: How Courageous Companies Thrive by Giving More Than They Take, which he co-authored with Paul Polman, former CEO of Unilever. Andrew and Paul are ranked #3 in the Thinkers50 Ranking of top management thinkers and Net Positive featured on the Thinkers50 Best New Management Booklist in 2022. In this Provocateurs podcast, Andrew joins Thinkers50 co-founder, Des Dearlove, and Kulleni Gebreyes, Deloitte US Consulting Life Sciences and Healthcare Industry Leader and US Chief Equity Officer. They address how leaders can stand up for their social and environmental values and overcome resistance from within and without their organisation. How can a business become ‘net positive’ – one that thrives and profits by solving the world’s problems, not creating them? How do you align purpose and profit? Why are companies o

Atif Rafiq: Digital Disruptor Provocateur of the C-Suite, Atif Rafiq has been disrupting companies for more than 25 years in Silicon Valley, the Fortune 500, and through a variety of his own startups. Having begun his career in digital native companies including AOL, Yahoo, and Amazon, Atif was named the first chief digital officer in the history of the Fortune 500 when he took on that role for McDonald's in 2013. He has overseen thousands of employees as a global P&L transformation and innovation leader in multiple companies and industries. Today, over a half million people follow Atif’s ideas about management and leadership on LinkedIn, where he is a Top Voice, and his newsletter, Re:Wire, has attracted over 100,000 subscribers. Atif’s 2023 book, Decision Sprint: The New Way to Innovate into the Unknown and Move from Strategy to Action, is a Wall Street Journal bestseller. In this podcast, Atif talks with Geoff Tuff of Deloitte and Des Dearlove of Thinkers50 about the accidental metamorphoses along his ca

Dane Jensen: Decoding the Power of Pressure How can we harness the positive powers of pressure? How can we mitigate the negative effects of pressure when the stakes are high? Dane Jensen is the CEO of Third Factor, an instructor at Queen’s University and the University of North Carolina, and author of The Power of Pressure. In this podcast with Deloitte’s Geoff Tuff and Thinkers50’s Stuart Crainer, he explains that pressure is a function of three things: importance – how much the outcome matters to you; uncertainty – lack of surety about the eventual result; and volume – how many high-stakes situations you face. Although pressure can be hugely destructive and lead to anxiety and burnout, Dane argues that it can also be hugely elevating. Being an emotional energy, pressure can be harnessed for peak performance. There are more world records set at the Olympic Games – one of the most pressure-packed environments – for example, than anywhere else in the world of sport. Listen to the podcast to find out the d

How to Tap into the Hidden Wisdom of the People Around You Why do people withhold information from each other? Why are some of the smartest, successful people the worst at learning from each other? Jeff Wetzler is on a quest to transform learning opportunities, both in business and in education. If we want to create a workforce for the future, with skills that cannot be replaced by AI, he explains, we have to do things differently not just within an organisation but at every stage of the education journey. Jeff is the former chief learning officer at Teach for America and is currently CEO of innovation organisation, Transcend. In his new book, Ask: Tap Into the Hidden Wisdom of People Around You), he outlines the origins and steps of his Ask Approach™ framework, starting with Curiosity. To find out more on how to improve the communication, collaboration, and critical thinking skills needed to tackle global challenges, from climate change to inequality to polarisation, listen to this Provocateurs podcast.

Neri Karra Sillaman: From Refugee to Fashion Revolutionary At age 11, Neri Karra Sillaman’s world was turned upside down when her Bulgarian-Turkish family was forced to flee their home country. Driven by a hunger for education and a better life, Neri grabbed an opportunity to study business management at the University of Miami, where she became interested in how businesses – in particular, businesses founded by immigrants – are created and sustained. She has subsequently become an expert in international and ethnic entrepreneurship, researching how the unique capabilities and mindset of immigrants create businesses that last. She received her doctorate from the University of Cambridge and her own 25-year-old leather accessories company, staffed by a workforce largely made up of people from disadvantaged backgrounds, has been recognised by B Corp as a social innovator. In this Provocateurs podcast, Neri chats with fellow immigrant Kulleni Gebreyes, the US Consulting Life Sciences and Health Care Industr