Let Us Reason - A Christian/muslim Dialogue

Al Fadi and Dr Jay Smith listen to a clip of a major interview of Dr Yasir Qadi by Mohammad Hijab on the topic of the preservation of the Quran. In this interview Dr Yasi Qadi admits it is a hard subject to discuss and that it should not be a public discussion.  He also says that it is enough to believe it and not question it. The original interview was done on 6/8/2020. This interview was very damaging to the Standard Islamic Narrative, and in it Dr Yasir Qadi admits that the S.I.N. has holes in it and it does not answer all the questions.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Continuing last week's discussion,  Al Fadi and Dr Jay Smith say that Ibn Mujaahed chose the seven Kira'at in the tenth century.  The criteria for choosing them was popularity.  Hafs differ from the other Kira'at by 93 thousand dots and vowels.  Therefore the preservation claim does not stand the test.  They give several examples between the Hafs and Warsh: 1. Sura 2:184 ; Al miskeen and Al masaakeen; the first is singular noun and the second is the plural form of the noun. 2. Sura 3:146; the words kaatala (fought) and kutila (killed). These differences have huge theological and practice implications.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr Jay and Al Fadi discuss the multiple different Arabic Qurans that a Turkish sister called Hattun found in different Arabic countries starting in 2016.  Dr Jay and Hattun took the Qurans to speakers corner in England where they showed them to Muslims who were shocked to hear and see that, because they have been told by their leaders that the Quran has been perfectly preserved to the letter and the dot.  The Muslim response was that these are different readings for different dialects.  There is five thousand differences between the two major versions which are called the Hafs and the Warsh alone.  These differences do not only change the doctrine and the practice, but also the theology.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Dr Jay continue there discussion from  Shoemaker's book Creating the Quran.  They name some scholars  including Montgomery, Patricia Corona and others who point out that Mecca was insignificant and Medina (Yathrib was a small date oasis with few hundred people living there, and there is no mention of Jews living there as the S.I.N. mentions.  They also say that most scholars conclude that the Quran and Islam is not from central Hijaz but from farther north.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Dr Jay Smith continue there review of Shoemaker book; creating the Quran.  Today they focus on where was the origin of the Quran.  They say that there was some rock inscription in Northern Arabian not in the Hijaz. Some of the reasons why the inscription doesn't fit the Hijazi dialect of central Arabia are three distinctive features: 1. The distinctive form of the relative pronoun.  2. The distinctive form of the distal demonstrative .  3. the use of the verbal constructive of ya aleph.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Muslims claim that Mecca is in Saudi Arabia, that Mohammad was born there, and that he also received his revelation of the Quran there.  If that is true where is Mecca? Steven Shoemaker in his book Creating the Quran on page114 mentions that there is no mention of a mecca in any of the great civilizations of the time .  Not only that,but another scholar; Patricia Corona said that there were no trade roues going through Mecca on land nor by the coast of the Red Sea bordering Mecca.  Many scholars say that Islam started way north of Mecca and that most Muslim scholars were Persians.  So Shoemaker concludes that Mecca was further north.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This manuscript was found in Damascus and was moved to Germany.  It looks a lot like the upper layer of the Sana manuscript.  There are three reasons why this manuscript is 8th century and not 7th century: 1. The dots , the circles ,and the verse markings suggests that the text is a later text.  2. .  The page layout and illuminations parallels the 8th century manuscripts.  3.  The ornamentations suggests Abd Al Malik and Al Hajjag new distinctive Islamic Arabic manuscripts.  The question is if this text came from Mecca and Medina, what was happening there? Scholars agree that in the 7th century those two cities where very isolated and insignificant.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr Jay and Al Fadi continue the comparison between the upper and the lower layers of the Sana manuscripts of the Quran with the 1924 Hafs edition of the Quran. They point out differences that changes the meaning of the text; for example Sura  9: 9 in the lower layer of the manuscripts states" the way of Allah while the Hafs Quran of 1924 says 'His way".  Another difference in the upper layer  as an example is Sura 7: 76 "you directed vs he directed" They point out that most of the differences have to do with the diacritical marking which did not exist until the 8th century.  Even with the upper layer of the manuscripts there was no standardized Quran yet. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr Jay Smith discusses the book that Dr Asma Hilali wrote on the Sana Palimpsest manuscripts.  He talks about the conclusions that she came up with by comparing it to todays Hafs Quran; she says that there are seventy variants in sixty three verses.  She also believes that it is a student text.  Jay says that that shuts down the idea of the preservation of the Quran which both Muslim and the Quran claim ( ie Sura 85: 21,22).  Then Jay and Al discuss some of the differences as examples.  Then they ask the question : Is the Quran perfectly preserved? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Sana manuscripts is a palimpsest manuscripts ; which means that there is a lower and upper layers of writing . Scholars say that the two writings are late seventh and early eighth century respectively.  They think that it is two versions of the Quran; the first is a pre- standard Quran which was erased and rewritten as the canonical version.  On comparing the two writing , it was found that there are seventy variants between the two.  Dr Jay says that the lower text was erased because it needed to be updated.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Sana'a manuscript was discovered in Yemen in 1975, it is very old with no dots and vowels.  It is a palimpsest (It has two layers of writings). It had late 7th to 8th century scripts.  It was carbon tested at the university of Arizona in 2007, and was dated to mid 7th century. The same segment was taken to four Europeans labs and they did not agree with the Arizona dating.  Shoemaker concludes that there is a problem with the carbon dating because the process dates the skin of the animal not the time the writing was writtenSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Anthony Rogers continue their discussion of Isaiah 53.  In this session they discuss how Jesus and His disciples talked about the fulfillment of Isaiah 53; 1. In Luke 24 after Jesus's resurrection ; he is explaining to the two disciples on the road to Emmaus  how the Christ will suffer, die and come back to life.  2. All four accounts of the gospel mention Isaiah 40 a voice crying out in the wilderness . 3. Jesus told his disciples that he will go to Jerusalem to die.  4. Another example was in Acts 8 where Philip is explaining the suffering Messiah to the Ethiopian who was reading Isaiah 53.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Anthony Rogers continue in Isaiah 53 about the reason for the death of the righteous servant.  It is atone for the guilt of the people (53:5,11).  This is the gospel message in advance.  The gospel is the good news; in Isaiah 40:9, 52:7.  Is. 53:1 the gospel is proclaimed. The gospel of Mark starts as it is written in Isaiah.  Zachariah 6:12 talks about the branch/ The Nazarene/ the Messiah. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Anthony Rogers continue discussing Isaiah 52 and 53, They notice that this servant is an individual, a human, a man, not a nation.  The pronoun "He" is being used many times.  In Isaiah 52:13, This servant will be highly exalted.  In Isaiah 2, the Lord alone will be exalted; This shows the divine identity of this figure.  Isaiah 52: says that this upright man will suffer and die, buried , resurrected and exalted (Is. 52:13,14).  He will be stricken, smitten , and afflicted (Is. 53:4) . He will be chastened, scourged , and crushed (Is. 53: 5). This figure will die for the sins of his people, and he will succeed. This person is the Lord Jesus.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Dr David continue to disprove the myth of the perfect preservation of the Quran.  In this episode they go to a book called Fadaelle Al Quran;  in Sura 33 there is only 73 verses left of 200 original verses; the reason is that a sheep ate it according to Ayesha who had the only copy of the sura.  According to Muslims the Quran was preserved by memory. in Sura 87: 6,7 Allah allows Mohammad to forget some suras that He wills.  In Hadith Al Bukhari 50:38,39 Mohammad claims that Allah caused him to forget some verses.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mohammad married Ayesha at age 6 and consummated the marriage at age 9.  The Quran allows marriage of  prepubescent child (Sura 65:4).  And since Muslims believe that Muhammad was an example for mankind; therefore Islam allows child marriage.  In order to justify that; the Muslim Da'wa team lie about girls being married as a child in the Bible; Mary is one example. They find unreliable Catholic apocryphal sources. Al and David discuss this matter in more details.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The lie of the perfect preservation of the Quran is no longer believable. Dr wood and Al Fadi discuss the discovery of multiple copies of the Quran that don't agree with each other.  They also discuss the debate between Muslim scholars and debaters about how to answer  the false claim of the preservation of the QuranSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Dr Jay Smith discuss the incarnation of Jesus; the word became flesh. Muslims deny that God can come to earth even though the story of the burning bush is in Chapter 20:10-14 of the Quran . The only way to have a holy ground is if God is there. They also talk about the two types of revelations; the general revelation/ creation, and special revelation. Christians agree on the general revelation .  Muslims believe that the Quran is a special revelation; is eternal, sent down, complete, and unchanged .The Quran is not complete and it changed according to all the research that was done.  Christians believe that Jesus is the Word of God, eternal, came down , never changed, and the only complete revelation of God.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sin in Islam is a set of dos and don'ts, Muslims believe there is two angels that are assigned to every person at birth to record their good and bad deeds, and that good deeds cancel out bad deeds. The Bible says that sin is much deeper that that, it took one sin to get Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden. They could no longer talk to God in person.  All creation was affected by that sin. We are all out of the Garden because God is holy.  God is the only one who can fix sin's problem. God made a covenant with Abraham were He alone can fulfill  in Genesis 15 .  Only God can atone for our sin through Jesus's ( the only sinless person) sacrifice which was promised in Genesis 3:15 that the seed of the woman ( Jesus) will crush the head of the serpent (Satan). To be continued in the next episode.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Dr jay Smith  discuss more doctrinal differences between Christianity and Islam and today they start with the trinity; they point out how the Christian God is relational both in the God head and with His creation.  They point out that we are made in God's image to be relational too.  Second they show the difference between Christians who are children of God versus Muslims who are slaves of Allah. Children can call God Daddy, and communicate with God without fear; Muslims are afraid of their God and must submit to him as master. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.