Value Investing with Legends

In this episode, hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos speak with Jenny Harrington, CEO of Gilman Hill Asset Management, about her approach to dividend-focused investing. Jenny shares her journey from early internships to portfolio management and explains how her strategy targets steady income through high-quality dividend-paying companies. The discussion examines risk management through cash flow, valuation discipline, and behavioral considerations that influence investor outcomes. Jenny also outlines her screening process, portfolio construction, and how she evaluates dividend sustainability. The conversation touches on lessons from market cycles, the role of communication in investing, and how technological changes may shape future opportunities and risks and much more! Key Topics: ● Introduction to dividend investing and its role in total returns (0:00) ● Jenny Harrington's early career and path into portfolio management (3:05) ● Lessons from internships and exposure to market professionals (3:10) ●

In this episode, Tano Santos speaks with Samer Sarraf, Founding Partner and COO of Amwal Capital Partners, about his journey from engineering and construction to Lehman Brothers and ultimately founding a public equities firm focused on the GCC. Samer reflects on lessons from the 2008 financial crisis, why private equity struggled in the region, and how his team applies a private equity mindset to public markets. The conversation examines regulatory change, market structure in Saudi and the UAE, concentrated investing, and a deep dive into Abu Dhabi Ports and much more!        Key Topics:     ●Samer's upbringing in Jordan and the role of education and entrepreneurship in his family (3:35) ● Studying civil engineering at McGill and early career in construction in Paris and Tahiti (9:46) ● Transition to Columbia Business School and pivot toward finance (16:16) ● Joining Lehman Brothers' real estate group and structuring CMBS transactions (17:57) ● Early signs of stress in credit markets ahead of the f

Ricky Sandler, founder, CEO, and CIO of Eminence Capital, joins hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos to explore a dynamic career spanning over three decades in long-short investing. Starting with stories from his upbringing and early career, Ricky unpacks the foundations of his investment philosophy centered around "change in perception" — a framework shaped by evolving market structures and investor behavior. He shares insights from navigating the 1998 crisis, outlines the value of rigorous risk management, and explains how quality businesses combined with contrarian thinking create lasting opportunities. The conversation also delves into quant integration, thoughtful activism, the nuances of portfolio construction, and his reflections on AI, market structure, and societal risks — and much more! Key Topics: ● Ricky Sandler's upbringing, tennis, and early exposure to finance (0:00)  ● The influence of competitive tennis on his investing mindset (3:58)  ● Why he considered law before ultimately pursuing fi

Robert Robotti, President and CIO of Robotti & Company Advisors, joins host Michael Mauboussin to explore a lifetime shaped by value investing. With deep roots in accounting and formative experiences auditing firms like Tweedy, Browne, Bob shares how those early exposures led him to a career buying underfollowed, undervalued companies. In this episode, Bob discusses how his contrarian approach has thrived amid market inefficiencies, especially in cyclical industries and under-the-radar public firms. He breaks down key investments, including Builders FirstSource and Tidewater, and explains why capital allocation, aligned incentives, and patience are critical to long-term success. He also addresses private equity, passive investing, and how AI might affect the future of both business operations and markets — and much more!   Key Topics: Introduction (0:00) Bob's upbringing and early exposure to entrepreneurship (2:09) How auditing Tweedy, Browne sparked Bob's interest in value investing (4:17) Learn

In this episode, host Tano Santos sits down with Richard Brekka, founder and managing partner of Second Alpha, to examine the lesser-known world of secondary investing in private technology companies. With decades of experience—from venture capital to secondary transactions—Richard shares his journey through private equity at Chase and CIBC, his role in building and reviving companies like Gomez Inc., and how that led him to identify a unique investment niche. He explains the mechanics of sourcing deals in illiquid markets, using data and AI to surface hidden gems, and the psychology of getting deals done. The discussion also explores valuations, exits, and policy implications of private market access for 401(k) investors, plus the impact of AI on business fundamentals and much more! Key Topics: ● Richard's early exposure to entrepreneurship and finance (3:29) ● Lessons from Arthur Laffer and University of Chicago MBA experience (6:15) ● Early career in private equity at Chase and learning value investing

Amit Wadhwaney, founding partner and portfolio manager at Moerus Capital Management, joins hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin to trace his unorthodox journey from Bombay to Concordia to founding a value investing firm focused on the balance sheet. Along the way, he discusses his early exposure to Marty Whitman, lessons from Third Avenue's international expansion, and what led him to start Moerus.   Amit outlines the core of his investment approach—asset-based valuation, downside protection, and long-term holding periods—and explains why macro factors are typically disqualifiers, not drivers, in his process. He shares insights into portfolio construction, the role of currency risk, and how Moerus identified undervalued opportunities in places like Argentina, Japan, and the gold sector.   Key Topics: ● Growing up in India and finding investing through chemical engineering and economics (3:04) ● Discovering Marty Whitman via an obscure academic book on value investing (5:05) ● Lessons from selling real

Bill Ackman, founder and CEO of Pershing Square Capital Management, joins hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos to trace the arc of his investing journey—from his early days in real estate finance to founding Gotham Partners and eventually building Pershing Square into a $30 billion firm. Bill discusses formative moments that shaped his thinking, including his controversial early short of MBIA, the painful lessons of the Valeant episode, and the transformation brought about by adopting a permanent capital structure. He also unpacks his investment philosophy, the importance of durability and moats, and his team’s approach to risk, activism, and concentrated investing. Along the way, Bill offers thoughts on AI, higher education, and what excites—and concerns—him about the future — and much more!      Key Topics:   ● Bill's near-death experience and early independence (2:19)  ● Skills learned at Harvard and lessons from rowing and sales (3:50)  ● Real estate foundation and Gotham Partners launch

In this episode, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin speak with Kristin Gilbertson, CIO of Access Industries and former CIO of the University of Pennsylvania Endowment. Kristin shares her early interest in economic development and her unique journey through the World Bank, Stanford Management Company, and into managing a major university endowment. She outlines how risk awareness and preparation helped her successfully lead through the 2008 financial crisis and gives detailed insights into asset allocation, manager selection, and the nuances of family office investing. Kristin also discusses career strategies for students interested in the endowment and wealth management space and much more!     Key Topics: ● Kristin’s early life and interest in economics (3:33)  ● Influential professors and academic inspirations at Harvard (4:10)  ● Experience at the World Bank and the Young Professionals Program (10:09)  ● Joining Stanford Management Company and portfolio repositioning (15:05)  ● Moving to Penn and add

In this episode, host Michael Mauboussin sits down with Seth Klarman, CEO and portfolio manager of The Baupost Group. One of the most influential practitioners of value investing, Seth shares his formative stories — from arbitraging coins as a kid to launching Baupost in 1982 — and reflects on his decades-long investment philosophy. They explore timeless principles of market inefficiencies, the importance of temperament, specialization versus generalization, the role of patient capital, and the challenges and opportunities ahead for investors in today’s world. Seth also opens up about technology trends like AI, the evolving market structure, and the enduring lessons from Graham & Dodd — and much more!   Key Topics: Seth’s early entrepreneurial ventures and coin arbitrage (2:10) Lessons from working at Mutual Shares with Max Heine and Michael Price (4:12) Starting Baupost and managing the founding families’ wealth (10:53) Core principles behind value investing and market inefficiencies (13:06) The impact

In this episode of Value Investing with Legends, Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin sit down with Kent Daniel, Professor of Finance at Columbia Business School, to discuss his journey from physics at Caltech to leading research in behavioral finance and quantitative investing. Kent shares insights from his academic work and his years at Goldman Sachs, including his critiques of the Fama-French model, the role of intangible information in asset prices, and the implications of short selling constraints. The conversation spans decades of market evolution, empirical challenges, and the behavioral patterns that continue to shape financial theory and practice.     Key Topics: ● Introduction by Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin (0:00) ● Introduction of guest Kent Daniel and his academic and professional background (0:48) ● Kent shares his early life, education at Caltech, and influences like Richard Feynman (3:31) ● Transition from physics to finance, MBA at UCLA, and entry into PhD program (5:46) ● Kent's disserta

In this episode, Cliff Asness joins Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin for a conversation that spans the evolution of quantitative investing, lessons from market crises, and the enduring tension between risk and behavioral explanations in finance. From his formative years at the University of Chicago under Gene Fama to building AQR into a quant powerhouse, Cliff reflects candidly on theory, performance, and how markets may have become less efficient in recent years.   Key Topics: Tano and Michael return from sabbatical and reflect on recent academic and classroom experiences (0:00) Overview of Cliff’s career and contributions to quant investing and academic finance (1:13) Cliff recounts his underachiever label, how standardized tests changed his path, and why he chose Penn’s M&T program (2:54) How Cliff’s coding work for Andy Lo inspired his academic path and led to Chicago (5:03) A breakdown of the 1992 and 1993 Fama-French papers, and how they reshaped asset pricing (8:45) Cliff discusses the theoretic

In this episode, Michael Mauboussin, adjunct professor at Columbia Business School, hosts Phil Ruvinsky, Managing Director and Head of the Fundamental U.S. Growth Team at BlackRock. With extensive experience in the investment industry, Phil shares his journey from law to finance, discusses his investment philosophy, and explains the importance of sustainable competitive advantages. The conversation explores the evaluation of management, the impact of AI on the competitive landscape, and the nuances of portfolio construction. Phil also highlights the role of macroeconomic factors and regulatory changes in investment decisions, shares his thoughts on the future of active management in an increasingly indexed market, and much more! Key Topics: Introduction to Phil's career and background (1:06) Transition from law to investment and early career challenges (2:15) Importance of business school in shaping investment philosophy (3:47) Recommended books for new team members (4:22) Utilizing competitive st

In this episode, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin speak with Anu Bradford, the Henry L. Moses Professor of Law and International Organization at Columbia Law School, to discuss the intricate dynamics of global technology regulation. Anu is recognized for her deep expertise in international economic law. Her pivotal books "The Brussels Effect" and "Digital Empires" explore how significant regions like the US, EU, and China shape technological standards worldwide. The conversation probes the complexities of regulating big tech companies across different legal and political landscapes, highlighting the significant influence of European regulations on global markets. She also touches on the impact of regulatory practices on innovation, the challenges of enforcing extensive digital laws, and the future trajectory of global tech governance. This episode offers a comprehensive look into the power struggles and cooperative efforts that define international technology regulation and much more!     Key Topics:

In today's discussion, Jonathan Knee, a distinguished advisor at Evercore Partners and Professor of Professional Practice of Media and Technology at Columbia Business School, explores the themes of his influential work, "The Platform Delusion." Jonathan's insights stem from a rich career in both the banking and academic sectors, bringing a nuanced perspective on digital versus analog platforms, competitive strategies, and the evolving landscape of technological advancements. The conversation uncovers the myths surrounding platform businesses and their impact on the economic principles that govern market dynamics. Jonathan also discusses the implications of regulatory frameworks and their intersection with business strategies in shaping industries and so much more!     Key Topics: Jonathan Knee's background and expertise in media and technology (01:40) The initial impetus behind writing "The Platform Delusion" and the misconceptions it addresses (13:14) Definitions and the real economic underpinnings of platf

In the third episode of Season 10, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin speak with James Bessen, Executive Director of the Technology and Policy Research Initiative at Boston University. Delving into the intricacies of technological advancement and market dynamics, Bessen shares his insights on the evolving landscape of competition and innovation. The discussion highlights the impact of proprietary software on industry disruption, exploring the significant shift from mass production to mass customization facilitated by technology. This episode not only provides a deep dive into the challenges and opportunities presented by the digital age but also prompts a reflection on the future of value investing in a tech-dominated world and so much more!     Key Topics: Welcome to Season 10 of Value Investing with Legends (0:20) Exploring the concept of barriers to entry in value investing (1:05) James Bessen discusses technology's economic impact (3:15) Analysis of the decline in economic disruption despite techno

In this episode, Tano Santos sits down with Jan Hummel, CIO of Paradigm Capital, revisiting his investment strategies and exploring the nuanced dimensions of risk management in the evolving European asset landscape. Jan discusses the foundational investment philosophy of Paradigm Capital, emphasizing risk minimization and the strategic deployment of assets across Europe. Key discussions pivot around the firm's selective investment criteria, focusing on companies in the small to mid-cap space and the significance of geographical and cultural nuances in their investment decisions. This conversation offers listeners insights into the subtleties of value investing, portfolio construction, the implications of geopolitical and economic dynamics on market opportunities, and so much more!   Key Topics: Introduction and background of Jan Hummel (0:37) Fundamental tenets of investment philosophy at Paradigm Capital (1:25) The impact of European market dynamics on investment strategies (7:25) Sourcing and valuing inves

In this heartfelt episode, we pay tribute to Charlie Munger, the visionary vice chairman of Berkshire Hathaway who recently passed away. Joining us is Todd Combs, an investment officer at Berkshire Hathaway and a close acquaintance of Munger. Todd shares personal anecdotes and insights into Munger's profound influence on the investment world and his unique approach to life and business. From his early meetings with Munger to the invaluable lessons on value investing and rational thinking, Todd provides an intimate look into the wisdom of one of the greatest investors of our time.     Key Topics: Celebrating Charlie Munger’s contributions and legacy (01:20) Todd’s initial encounters with Munger (02:15) The intellectual journey and partnership between Munger and Buffett (08:57) Munger's approach to life, investing, and the importance of mental models (11:22) Behavioral economics insights shared by Munger (13:00) The practical applications of Munger’s wisdom in business and investing (16:17) Munger’s lasting im

Today's discussion with Kim Lew, President and CEO of the Columbia Investment Management Company, traverses her unique journey from her roots in the Bronx to managing a prominent Ivy League endowment. Kim shares her insights on navigating the intricate world of investment management, particularly in risk management and asset allocation. With a career marked by pivotal roles at entities like the Ford Foundation and Carnegie Corporation, her expertise brings a nuanced understanding of the interplay between market dynamics and organizational strategy. This episode explores how adaptability, intellectual curiosity, and understanding global trends shape successful investment approaches.   Key Topics: Kim's early career and transition to finance (2:59) Role at Chemical Bank and career progression (5:05) Experience at Prudential Capital and Ford Foundation (9:27) Shift to Carnegie Corporation and Columbia Investment Management (18:07) Challenges of managing a larger endowment (20:13) Aligning endowment goals with u

In the complex world of financial markets and economic fluctuations, John Armitage, a seasoned investment maestro, sits down with us today. As the chief strategist behind the success of Egerton Capital, Armitage brings his profound insights into navigating the complexities of portfolio management and the subtle art of risk-taking in fluctuating markets. His expertise, honed through years of experience, sheds light on the critical impact of macroeconomic shifts and the pitfalls that stock pickers often encounter amidst outdated corporate data. This episode delves into passive investing, dissecting the crucial role of competitive dynamics in sectors like European aviation and examining the transformative impact of a growing talent pool on the traditional realms of asset management. Armitage also ventures into the ethical crossroads, intertwining moral integrity, societal upheaval, and the revolutionary wave of artificial intelligence. We uncover his focus on growth, governance, and quality, underpinned by a met

In the intricate dance of market movements and economic trends, it takes a discerning eye to discern patterns and make strategic decisions. Enter Nicolai Tangen, the astute CEO of Norges Bank Investment Management, who joins hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos on Value Investing with Legends. A connoisseur of art history and asset management, Nicolai offers a rare blend of expertise, drawing parallels between the seemingly disparate worlds of art and investment. His approach, marked by a blend of rigorous analysis and intuitive pattern recognition, reveals the underpinnings of a global economy shrouded in paranoia and driven by innovation. In this episode, Nicolai unfolds his journey from being an art student to leading one of the most prominent investment funds, highlighting how understanding historical context informs risk appetite. He brings to the forefront the role of AI in transforming investment strategies and the delicate balance of managing a substantial portfolio while maintaining a contrarian