The Third Story Podcast With Leo Sidran

Brian Krock is... ...a saxophone player. A self described “woodwind doubler” he has devoted much of his career to playing multiple wind instruments credibly. ...a bandleader and composer. His big band, Big Heart Machine is one of the most innovative and exciting large ensembles today, and his smaller band Liddle pushes the boundaries between composed and improvised music in new directions. ...a YouTuber. His Scorestudy video series unpacks the mechanisms and underlying processes informing his favorite composers, and explores ideas about composition, process, nature, technique, and history. ...a thoughtful guy. Here we consider the role of critical analysis in music, the “unintended consequences of the capitalist nature of music education,” what it means to improvise like a composer, how reading James Joyce influenced his relationship to listening to and writing music and led him to “create artwork that invites people to put forth some effort,” why he loves “to be actively involved in things that you're a b

Alec Hanley Bemis, writer and manager of cultural projects, co-founded the Brassland record label in 2001 along with his friends Aaron and Bryce Dessner of the band The National. Over the years, the label has become home to a community of like minded creative musicians who defy category. Last month Alec published a piece in Creative Independent called 19 things I’d tell people contemplating starting a record label (after running one for 19 years). Here we discuss what happened in between.  Although this conversation was recorded in the before times of 2019, listening back I am struck by a few particularly interesting ideas that emerge in the talk: the distinction between culture and subculture; that we are now in an era of “constant content”; the shift over time from the taste maker as an institution to the taste maker as an individual personality; and what he describes as “the economy of cool”. www.third-story.com www.patreon.com/thirdstorypodcast www.brassland.org

In the late 1970s Jeff Cesario was positioned to be one of the most in demand wedding band conga players in Wisconsin and some parts of Minnesota too. So why did he trade all that in and move to LA to pursue a career in comedy? Here, he tells that story.  Since then, Jeff has been an actor, comedian, producer and writer, who has written and produced for Dennis Miller Live and The Larry Sanders Show. He has appeared on Adam Carolla, The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson, Comedy Central Presents among other shows. Cesario was a part of two Emmy wins with Dennis Miller Live. He’s a real comedy success story, in his longevity and in his ease both behind the camera and in front of it. Jeff’s new standup album, What Was I Thinking, is out now and available in all the places you find albums. And his podcast Play With Pain with Chet Waterhouse is also available in all the podcast places. We spoke recently about the “power of insulation” (working out your craft inside of a small scene), how he approaches his standup

Trumpeter Philip Dizack was once named by Downbeat Magazine as “[one of twenty-five] Trumpet Players for the Future”. That’s not to say that he isn’t for the present and with a deep respect for the tradition as well.  After nearly 20 years in New York, playing with a long list of notable musicians ranging from mentors like Brian Lynch, Eddie Palmieri, and Bobby Watson to members of his own cohort including Ben Wendel, Shai Maestro and Sullivan Fortner among many others, Philip moved to Denton, TX in 2019 to join the faculty at University of North Texas. Earlier this year, we got on the phone to catch up, and that’s what this episode really is: Something between a more structured career retrospective interview and a temperature check in the time of Covid, a conversation about what and how he thinks about playing, teaching (“preparing for my teaching is the most helpful thing that I’ve ever done for myself”), practicing (“the more specific your questions are, the more specific your answers will become”), potent

Israeli singer Noga Erez thinks about the fallacy of authenticity, the advantages of creative limitations, the way personal stories can be perceived as political, and what it means to make music with your heart instead of your head.  She started out as a jazz singer, performing and recording her original songs with a piano trio. Those recordings are long gone, lost in a pile of defective hard drives. But anyway, she decided that her original concept was too intellectual and that it was time to make something more intuitive. Encouraged by her musical (and personal) partner Ori Rousso, she wanted to make something that wasn’t so uncool.  So she began producing tracks that straddle hip hop, pop. electronic, inspired by Bjork, Kendrick Lamar and Flying Lotus. Her first record, Off The Radar, came out in 2017 and included the song “Dance While You Shoot” that was featured in an Apple Music commercial. She toured in the states and Europe, and was positioned for a big year in 2020 as she prepared to release her new

For the second year in a row, I talk to my dad, musician/producer/journalist/philosopher Ben Sidran in honor of his birthday. This time he’s turning 77, and we consider his recent projects, including the books The Ballad of Tommy LiPuma and There Was A Fire: Jews, Music and the American Dream, and his latest single “Who’s The Old Guy Now”.  Of course these are atypical times, and so this is an atypical episode, in which we discuss being alive on the planet in Covidtimes, watching livestream jazz, getting older, the difference between Troubadours, Shamans and Griots, going “underground”, why jazz is sometimes called “the sound of surprise”, whether or not the idea of “popular music” will endure into the 21st century, how a bill becomes a law, Miles Davis’ posture, and just what exactly “hay foot, straw foot” means. www.third-story.com www.patreon.com/thirdstorypodcast www.bensidran.com

Eric Krasno is in a lot more places than one might realize. Known for his work with the bands Soulive and Lettuce, he also works with all kinds of groups as a player - including the Tedeschi Trucks Band, Phil Lesh and Friends, Oteil Burbridge and Friends...it’s a lot of friends. Maybe that’s because he has one foot in the jam band world: the universe of extended grooves, risky riffing and close contact with a community of fans.  What surprised me about Eric is how much stuff he actually does - he’s part frontman, limelight guy, and part behind the scenes guy. For example, he also has another foot in the world of songwriting and production, and particularly in that space where soul and hip hop meet. He has produced and written songs for Susan Tedeschi and Derek Trucks, Talib Kweli, Nigel Hall, The London Souls, Marcus King, 50 Cent, and Lawrence.  He also makes records as a solo artist. His most recent release Telescope came out last year, accompanied by a series of animated videos that hold together as a glob

Drummer Jochen Rueckert has some things to get off his chest.  Born and raised outside of Cologne, Germany, Rueckert started coming to New York as soon as he possibly could. By the time he was in his early 20s, he was already well into paying his dues. He can be heard on over 120 albums and worked or recorded with musicians and bands such as the Marc Copland Trio, the Kurt Rosenwinkel new quartet, the Mark Turner Band, the Melissa Aldana trio, the Sam Yahel trio, John Abercrombie, Pat Metheny (he tells that story here), Matt Penman, Kenny Werner, Bill McHenry, Seamus Blake, Guillermo Klein and Los Guachos as well as Madeleine Peyroux. He also leads his own band, programs and releases electronic music under the moniker Wolff Parkinson White, and has written a series of ebooks chronicling every hotel room he's stayed at with a self-timer photograph and short stories about some of the more annoying aspects of life as a touring musician, called Read The Rueckert. In this extensive and wide ranging conversation Ru

Rudresh Mahanthappa has the kind of biography that suggests he might be an intimidating and serious person to talk to. He’s the Director of Jazz at Princeton University where he teaches improvisation and directs small groups. He has been listed frequently in the Critics' Poll of Down Beat magazine. He studied music in India and brought that exploration into his own style of hybridized jazz (done in part for a Guggenheim Fellowship), an experience that he describes “as a way of getting to know what it means to be Indian American, it was a way of defining where I am as a person and it’s almost like the music was a byproduct.” Mahanthappa started playing alto saxophone as a young boy, first drawn to the more contemporary sounds of David Sandborn, Grover Washington, Jr, Bob Mintzer and Michael Brecker. In fact, here he reminisces about hearing saxophone players in popular songs on the radio (Huey Lewis, Bruce Springsteen, Pink Floyd) when he was growing up. Eventually he heard a Charlie Parker record, which reori

Brother and sister Clyde and Gracie Lawrence say that they’ve been professional musicians all their lives, they just weren’t always making money at it.  Raised around creative people (their mother is a dancer and their father a film director), Clyde and Gracie were encouraged to be creative from the very start. So it’s no real surprise that at a very young age, they began making hip, accessible, fun, and deeply satisfying music together that walks the line between soul, funk, pop, and “Seinfeld”. Whatever you call it, their music has been the soundtrack to my quarantine, something I’ve shared with my daughter through these strange months of physical distancing.  Here Clyde and Gracie talk about bridging the gap between hip and pop, managing the creative process in a sibling band, making independent videos, defining success, creating space for young women in the world of funk music, working with producers and mentors (including Eric Krasno and Adam Schlesinger), and how to use their platform for good during th

Singer-songwriter Louise Goffin says she is “uncomfortable with nostalgia”. Louise Goffin says that “in order to take care of the world, you have to take care of your inner soul.” Louise Goffin says “don’t believe everything you think.” Her new record Two Different Movies was co-produced by Louise and Dave Way, and features a long list of incredible musicians and collaborators. Our conversation itself is kind of like two different movies. One of them deals with an independent songwriter, with a decades long career (she made her first record at 18). The other explores what it was like to grow up as the daughter of young, talented parents who just happened to be two of the most celebrated songwriters of their generation (Gerry Goffin and Carole King).  Songs have played an almost impossibly significant role in Louise’s life, so it’s no surprise that in addition to writing and recording, she also hosts the Song Chronicles podcast, where she talks to notable songwriters. This is one of those conversations that op

I can’t think of anyone I would rather talk to right now than Jason Moran. Here we consider so much about history, and so much about the present moment in our country. The conversation is as deep as it is wide, and along the way Jason considers truth versus passion, promoting the “Freedom Principle”, America’s unfortunate way of forgetting the past, what happens when innovation becomes rhetoric, what it means for African American musicians to move freely “from the stage to the table”, the power dynamic within choosing repertoire, how Thelonious Monk and KRS-1 are similar, coming up in Houston among a generation of jazz innovators,  what we still have to learn from Louis Armstrong, and what it means to be the “personal embodiment of your history”. www.third-story.com www.patreon.com/thirdstorypodcast  

Orlando le Fleming is the kind of bass player who possesses that mysterious element, that sound, that groove, that thing that you want to hook up with. Maybe that’s why some of the finest drummers in jazz have chosen Orlando to play in their groups - he logged serious miles playing with Jeff “Tain” Watts, Ari Hoenig, and Antonio Sanchez - three of the most influential drummers alive. And an early recording project with Jimmy Cobb helped to position Orlando as a bass player to know about. He’s also a bass player that singers like to work with. He played with Jane Monheit for years, and spent much of the last few years on the road with Leslie Odom, Jr. (who is known for playing the role of Aaron Burr in Hamilton). Orlando co-leads a drummerless group called Owl Trio with saxophonist Will Vinson and guitarist Lage Lund, and his solo project Romantic Funk features his groovy fusiony funky tunes played by a collection of New York jazzheads. Orlando has taken his years of experience and strategies for getting it to

Saxophonist Richie Cole died on May 2, 2020. He lived a jazz life all the way. His playing, his demeanor and his philosophy were all contained in his catchphrase / modus operandi: Alto Madness.  “He was devoted to the bebop lifestyle,” says his old friend Janis Siegel. But he was also torn between impulses to be a serious musician operating on the highest level, and to be an entertainer and make people happy.  My dad interviewed Richie in 1985. I interviewed Richie in 2017. I interviewed my dad yesterday to bring it full circle.  In this episode we revisit all three of those conversations, as well as a recent chat with singer Janis Siegel about her friendship with Richie, and some newly unearthed live performance recordings of Richie with singer Eddie Jefferson, captured just days before Jefferson was shot and killed after a gig with Richie in Detroit.  In these strange times when it’s unclear what it means to have a “gig”, or when the world will open up again, Richie’s bebop life becomes especially resonant.

Becca Stevens is a singer, songwriter, teacher and genuinely lovely person, and also one of the few repeat offenders on the Third Story Podcast. I first talked to her in 2015 and I remember our conversation as being truly connected, candid and comfortable. We had never met before but I left the experience feeling that we were genuinely friends. She has that thing about her that makes you feel like you know her even when you only know her work. Becca’s new record, Wonderbloom, came out last month just as the world began to shelter in place, and her tour, promotion schedule and general career came to a screeching halt, along with everything else. I thought of her almost immediately because I’ve been following the journey of this record on her social media, one that took her around the world, and led her to collaborate with 40+ musicians - some of whom are also former guests of this podcast, including Michael League, Cory Wong, Alan Hampton, and Jacob Collier. The record is varied and voluminous - it’s really no

Josh Norek is a difficult man to define. He is generally a behind the scenes kind of guy - president of Regalías Digitales (a firm that helps hundreds of Latin recording artists collect their music royalties and license their songs to film and television productions), co-founder of the Latin Alternative Music Conference (LAMC), co-host of the nationally syndicated public radio show ‘The Latin Alternative,’ former VP of Nacional Records, artist manager, music attorney.  Then again sometimes he’s an in-front of the scenes kind of guy, like with his group Hip Hop Hoodios, which he describes as “probably the world’s only Latino Jewish hip hop group out there”. As Josh tells it, “It’s a group that started as an inside joke” but that ultimately carved out an impressive space within the emerging Latin Alternative space of the early aughts.  Hip Hop Hoodios went on extended hiatus for over a decade, releasing the occasional single or remix but generally staying quiet, until late 2019 when they released “Knishin’ In T

Ron Sexsmith likes to take walks. “I was a courier for a number of years and I wrote most of the songs on my first couple albums on the job,” he says “Whenever you’re doing something that’s kind of mindless, then your mind is free to roam. For me it’s a good way to zero in on what I’m trying to say.”  Very few songwriters develop the kind of skill and status that Ron Sexsmith has. He’s a songwriter’s songwriter. He writes the songs that the rest of us wish we were writing. He does it consistently, carefully, quietly. If you know who he is, then you know what a deceptively brilliant songwriter he is, and you recognize his singing (at times sweet, other times plaintive or plainspoken). As Ron tells it, he’s a “cred-artist” - someone the labels keep around to make themselves look good, to keep the authenticity quotient high. He has released nearly 20 solo albums in 35 years, and his songs have been covered by a number of well-known musicians, including Elvis Costello, Feist, Rod Stewart, Emmylou Harris, and Mich

Curtis Stigers got his big break as a young man in the early 90s, with a top ten pop hit (1991’s “Wonder Why”), followed by a series of soul-pop records. Around that time he also recorded a version of Nick Lowe’s “(What’s So Funny ‘Bout) Peace, Love and Understanding” for The Bodyguard soundtrack, which sold in the 10s of millions of copies. That is to say, Curtis got his start in the deep of the pool, swimming with the sharks. Stigers has a soulful voice, a direct approach to storytelling both as a songwriter and an interpreter, and he plays good saxophone too. He came out of Boise, Idaho, and was mentored somewhat incredibly by the gospel and jazz pianist Gene Harris. So maybe it was only a matter of time before he turned his heart back towards his first love, jazz. After living in New York and launching himself as a pop act, he made two somewhat improbable decisions in a row, first pivoting away from pop and towards making jazz records, and then moving home to his hometown in Idaho, from where he has opera

What is needed in these adverse times? We turn to our spirit guides, our philosopher kings, our rabbis: the musicians. Because although this particular form of adversity is new, musicians have been choosing to feel good in spite of adverse conditions for a long time.  In this episode, we explore the nature of the musician joke, particularly the jazz musician joke. Jokes about gigs, drummers, singers, trombone players, viola players, junkies, 3 legged pigs, bagpipes, bar mitzvahs, African safaris, little old ladies, family therapy, tattoo parlors, monkeys, genies, it’s all here. In other words, the classics. Featuring Steven Bernstein, Amy Cervini, Peter Coyote, Ethan Eubanks, Donald Fagen, James Farber, Steve Gadd, Hilary Gardner, Gil Goldstein, Steve Khan, Ashley Kahn, Tessa Lark, Will Lee, Phil Lyons, Les McCann, Adam Nussbaum, Ben Sidran, Janis Siegel, Larry Ratso Sloman, Dave Stoler, Jack Stratton, Neil Tesser, Michael Visceglia, Michael Winograd, and more.

Since the very beginning of this podcast, my father (Ben Sidran) and I have been having occasional, timely conversations to process our own shared experience and often the experience of the world around us. Here we are again, contemplating the future after Covid-19, considering the consequences, and wondering what jazz has to do with it (and what it has to do with jazz). www.third-story.com www.patreon.com/thirdstorypodcast www.bensidran.com