Curling Legends Podcast

Hersh Lerner says if you're not nervous it's BS. Hersh grew up in Winnipeg, learning to curl at the Maple Leaf Curling Club. His talent for golf was matched by his prowess on the ice, scoring three 8-enders in one season. Joined by Coleman Staniloff, Robert Lemecha and Allan Dudar, Hersh first won a purple heart in 1963. The crowd in Brandon was stunned watching the Richardsons of Saskatchewan dismantle Manitoba 16-4. The Lerner squad didn't recover that week, finishing 3-7. Vowing he'd be back, Hersh returned in 1966, again with Robert and Allan and now joined by Bob Dudar at lead. They finished 6-4, defeating eventual winner Ron Northcott from Alberta but losing close games to Bob "Pee-wee" Pickering of Saskatchewan and runner-up Joe Gurowka of Ontario. Before talking to Hersh (43:50) Kevin sits down with the guest from episode 24, Wally Ursuliak and his friend Will Pacarynuk. "Lucky" Will, aka "Fudgie", has spent the last few years writing WALLY-san , a history of Wally's life and legacy.

George Karrys bought The Curling News. February 15, 2023 was the 25th anniversary of the Olympic men's curling final in Nagano, Japan. George and teammates Mike Harris, Richard Hart and Collin Mitchell of Canada won a silver medal after losing to Patrick Hurlimann of Switzerland. Five years later, George purchased the Canadian Curling News from Doug Maxwell. This episode looks back at the history of The Curling News, its origin dating back to 1957 and how George became the custodian of this legendary journal of curling. Follow the column "Buried Treasure" and Curling Legends Podcast Facebook page where host Kevin Palmer digs into past issues of The Curling News, sharing articles and photographs while tracing the evolution of the sport.

  Heather Houston isn't a stereotypical skip. She never felt a need to be the centre of attention, often avoiding the limelight. When Heather and Lorraine Lang formed a new team in 1987 with Diane Adams and Tracy Kennedy at front end, quick success made it difficult to evade public attention. After winning the Scott Tournament of Hearts in 1988, they became the first Team Canada to win the Scotties again in 1989. Heather shares her thoughts on skipping, finding success, dealing with disappointment and asks the question, "if you didn't win would you have had as much fun?". 

Al Hackner always concentrated on the game. His deep focus, cool demeanor and absence of emotional display led to his nickname "the Iceman". Al's partnership with third Rick Lang in 1979 led to four trips to the Brier final in the next 6 years. They won their first in 1982 with Bob Nicol and Bruce Kennedy at front end and later recruited Ian Tetley and Pat Perroud to capture their second Canadian and World championship in 1985. Al reflects on his famous double takeout against Pat Ryan at the '85 Brier in Moncton and shares many stories from his long career. The episode concludes with a recording of Arnold Asham performing "The Hack Came Back".

Joe Gurowka believes curling associations need to engage players. He shared this perspective in his retiring address as Ontario Curling Association (OCA) president in 1984. Joe’s career as a player and administrator covers over half a century. He skipped Tom Howat, Ken Ingo and Donald Mackey through the Ontario Tankard in 1966 and narrowly lost the Brier in an extra-end playoff to Ron Northcott of Alberta. In a return trip to the Brier in 1976, Joe acheived the rare feat of shooting 100%. He went on to win his first Canadian Seniors Championship in 1986 as third for Earle Hushagen and added two more Seniors titles and a Masters playing second for Jim Sharples. Joe held many roles as a builder, including president of the Canadian Curling Association but it was during his time as president of the OCA that he was entangled in controversy with Ed Werenich during the 1984 Provincial Tankard and the legend of curling's version of “deep throat” was born.

Orest Meleschuk could accept when an opponent threw a good stone. But he was less tolerant when chaff from a corn broom turned a terrible miss into a made shot. In 1972 the luck of the chaff fell his way and together with third Dave Romano, second John Hanesiak and lead Pat Hailley, they won the 1972 Manitoba Tankard, Macdonald Brier and Air Canada Silver Broom (world championship). Orest reminisces on that magic season and recalls the famous "Labonte Boot." He shares thoughts on the 1989 Brier and a controversial burnt stone against BC's Rick Folk that may have cost his team (John Usackis, John Hyrich and Sean Meleshcuk) a trip to the playoffs. Plenty of tales from across the decades including his version of "Orest meets Ernie Richardson" along with thoughts on the modern era and why Orest believes curling is in trouble. 

Georgina Wheatcroft always wanted to be an Olympian. Initially kept out of the evaluation camps, she needed a Scotties victory with Pat Sanders in 1987 to qualify for the first ever Canadian Olympic Curling Trials. She eventually reached her goal, winning bronze at the 2002 Olympics in Salt Lake City. Georgina takes us through her journey, the high and lows, the close losses, running out of time at a skins game, and considers she might be the only player to have curled with both Joneses; Jennifer and Colleen.

Don Lewis was an innovator. Being a curling icemaker in the 1970s was as much art as science. Don learned the craft in Saskatchewan, honed his skills with winter sojourns to Toronto in the early sixties and eventually became head icemaker for 14 Briers and 18 World Championships. He was inducted into the Canadian Curling Hall of Fame in 1989 and later joined the CCA board, becoming President in 2001. Don passed away August 11, 2021. Before talking to Don (29:40) Kevin talks with Warren Hansen about his new book "Sticks 'n' Stones: The Battle for Curling to be an Olympic Sport...". Warren also shares thoughts on Don Lewis and Larry Wood. A guest on Episode 55, Larry passed away on February 15, 2022. 

Erika Brown started young. At the age of 15 she qualified for the 1988 Olympic Games and would compete in her first World Junior Championships a month after her appearance in Calgary. Erika shares her experiences growing up in the first family of Madison curling, playing third for Lisa Schoeneberg and Patti Lank, then returning to skip and reaching the Olympics 26 years after her first appearance. She looks back on a storied career of 14 World Championship appearances and 3 Olympic games, including 4 second place finishes, and the close calls that kept her from reaching the ultimate goal, a gold medal. This episode also includes an excerpt from podcast episode "Galleria Gold"  from Rocks Across The Pond (84:00).

There are many legendary nicknames in curling. The Wrench, Snake, Moose, Arrow, Ice Man and the Round-Mound-Of-Come-Around are only a few.  But you may not have heard the legend of "Rock Bottom". Coach for Team Epping at the 2021 Tim Horton's Brier is Jim Wilson, aka R.B. Jim shares the origin of his nickname, some insight into Team Epping in the Brier bubble and considers a What If? for Wayne Middaugh's 1998 World Championship squad.  

Rae Kells was prepared for the challenge.  Her experience as a probations officer provided ideal training for work as a curling official.  Her steady approach to controversial finishes at the 1993 Canadian Junior Women’s and ’94 Junior Men’s championships led to nearly 3 decades officiating regional, national, and international events, including four Olympic Winter Games.  Rae was inducted into the Canadian Curling Hall of Fame in 2019. Before talking to Rae (30:24), Kevin speaks to Donna Boyle about her involvement with production of the recently released documentary Sticks and Stones: The Battle for the Soul of Curling.

Don Aitken misses corn brooms. With two players pounding in unison, the sound and rhythm was a thing of beauty. In the 1970s, Don practiced on linoleum during summer months and by winter, helped sweep up purple hearts, winning Quebec Provincial titles throughout the decade-first with skip Bill Kent and later Jim Ursel. His Brier championship victory came with Ursel, Art Lobel and Brian Ross, taking the title in their home city of Montreal in 1977. The Hall of Famer shares stories from early junior success and discovering drag effect in the 1960s, up to his final Brier appearances as a skip in the early 80s.

Terry Jones wanted to have fun. As a kid he ran errands for the press box during the local baseball tournament and saw the thrill of being a sportswriter. Over his career "Jonesy" has covered it all, including succeeding Don "Buckets" Flemming as the curling scribe for the Edmonton Journal. Terry shares a secret to Don's success, reveals his own origin story, then weaves a history of curling in Northern Alberta, by way of his book World Curling Capital. A limited release, some copies are still available and can be purchased by contacting Curling Alberta. Terry was inducted into the Canadian Curling Hall of Fame in 2019. This episode also includes Kevin's commentary on recent discourse about changing the Brier and Scotties (67:30) and an excerpt from podcast episode "Run it Back: 1997 Brier Final" from Rocks Across The Pond (84:00)

Elaine Dagg-Jackson pursued her passion to coach curling. The decision led her to amazing experiences across the globe and eventually her dream job as National Women's Coach with Curling Canada. Her introduction to the sport came from father Lyall, winner of the 1964 Brier and World Championship. Her first trip to the Scotties was in 1987 as the alternate for Pat Sanders, but it was her work with Julie Sutton in the early 90s that would raise her coaching development to new levels. Elaine shares how her path in curling was not always clear and reflects on the moments that ultimately led to her becoming one of the first professional coaches in the game.

Bert Gretzinger has a few stories to tell. Born in Winnipeg, he spent his middle-school years in Calgary and eventually landed in Vancouver, winning his first purple heart as vice for Bernie Sparkes in 1976. After moving to Kelowna, Bert next won the BC Provincials in 1989 with Rick Folk. They lost to the Ryan Express in the Brier final and when Pat moved to Kelowna, Bert was willing to drop to second to form a new team. With Gerry Richard at lead, their team of skips would compete in three straight Briers, including back-to-back finals against Russ Howard in 1993 and '94. Bert would finally skip a team to a Brier in 1999 and fall one game short of a chance at the Olympics in 2001. Bert tells stories of car spiels, calcuttas and his version of the rock handle controversy at the 1994 Brier. He also shares a lesson in gamesmanship from Bernie Sparkes.

Resby Coutts is a real life Les Nessman. Farm reporting was the primary job but having been a member of the Murray Nye team that lost the final of the 1981 Manitoba Tankard, curling was added to his radio duties. Resby shares how starting early at a one sheet club sparked a lifetime in the roaring game. We cover his playing years, the Brandon "Olympic" Trials, the story behind the first Brier and many other tales of Manitoba curling history. Resby is helping to fund the Manitoba Curling Hall of Fame. Go to https://www.canadahelps.org/en/charities/manitoba-curling-hall-of-fame-museum-inc/p2p/most-notable-teams/ before December 5th to contribute and vote on Manitoba's Most Notable Team. You can also visit his website at http://www.thecurler.com/.

Lindsay Sparkes was driven by a desire to improve rather than by competition. Leaving figure skating for curling she replaced judges with a scoreboard and by focusing on her own ability, eventually the winning took care of itself. Joined by childhood friends Dawn Knowles, Robin Klassen and Lorraine Bowles, Lindsay skipped her young team to the Provincial and Canadian Championship in 1976. They repeated in 1979, with the added pressure of representing Canada at the first ever Women's World Championship in Perth, Scotland. Lindsay shares stories from those early years and her later success, winning the Worlds and Olympics with Linda Moore, and why she stepped away from competition and became a national coach.

Glen Jackson was young and brash but made a mature decision when it mattered. A coin flip to determine who would be third for Paul Gowsell on their high school rink went to Neil Houston and Glen chose to stay with the team. Joined by Kelly Stearne at lead, the long haired teenagers with their push brooms would go on to win Canadian and World Junior Championships while taking home cash from some of the greatest teams of the era. Glen shares his version of legendary Gowsell stories like the van, the Van Winkle, the dog and the pizza. Before talking to Glen (30:45), I speak with transplanted Canadian living in Scotland, Doug Wilson (4:02). Doug works through his personal psychoanalysis of curling strategy with other curling fans on his Facebook group Daily Curling Puzzle.

Matt Hames was a mad man. Once a copywriter, just like fictional TV character Don Draper, Matt gave up three martini lunches at Bay and Bloor for six packs and road trips to bonspiels in Thunder Bay and a chance to make the Olympics. After falling short to reach the 1997 Olympic Trials with John Base, Matt landed with Scott Patterson and kept pursuing curling for a time, but eventually life took him to Upstate New York. We discuss Matt's journey and also how we met; not on the ice in 1995 when I lived in Toronto, but on his Curling Zoom party, which has become a twice weekly event during the COVID-19 pandemic. Before talking to Matt (40:57), I catch-up with my guest from Episodes 7 and 8, Warren Hansen (14:55). We discuss his new podcast with Kevin Martin, Inside Curling (hosted by Jim Jerome), and delve into Canada's Curling Hall of Fame. We also discuss rule changes, such as freezing a centre guard to discourage the tick-shot. My article that examines this rule (mentioned in the show) can be found at http:/

John Ferguson developed management skills from behind the tee-line.  Dealing with a contentious boardroom seemed easy after numerous years as vice for two of the most eccentric skips in curling history. As third for Paul Gowsell, John won the 1977 Canadian Juniors and 1978 Uniroyal World championships. He eventually teamed with Ed Lukowich and joined by Neil Houston and Brent Syme, they won the 1986 World Championship and captured the bronze medal at the 1988 Olympics in Calgary. John shares stories from across his curling days and gets to reminisce while watching a clip from Fast Eddy Curling Tips.